Going forged 5E

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rwdrev

Member +
rite folks,

time has come to build myself a proper engine. i blew the last standard engine up after its rebuild and not bothering with standard again. lol.

i got hold of a 5e, and have now got myself forged pistons and rods from _shaun_

i have spent the last few nights going through the differnt builds, discussions, threads to see what people are using but wanting to know your thoughts on what to use in the build.

spec i am looking for is fast/road,

decked 5e
cleaned up/polished/regrind/balanced crank
standard 4efte head (for now), had atleast 1 skim that i had done
ross flat top pistons, scat rods
acl shells and thrust washers
new oil pump
and turbo will be either my td04l for now, but looking into a td05, but not sure which one.

now for the questions :-

1, what head gasket to use.
2, what size injectors
3, safe boosting levels
4, ring gapping
5, (the 1 thats bothering me the most) running in, oil and oil changing.

i read the motor-man link i found (think it was anyway) and i get and like what he says, but looking for other suggestions. :confused:

Thanks for the help in advance :rockon:
 
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AdamB

Member +
Spec sounds pretty good mate, will do you for what you need it for anyway! :)
If you wanted the best of the best I would prob swap out the scat rods for pauter, and go with some CP pistons, but thats my opinion.

Headgasket - Will depend what kind of boost and fuel your going to run, I would always try and stick as thin as possible as this keeps the static CR high and helps spool turbo's and keeps driveability nice. Although I have heard that even with a low CR like 7.8:1 its still very driveable due to the displacement of the 5E.

Injectors - Again depends on boost levels, you can run the engine in with stock injectors + 4e ecu, and raise the fuel pressure slightly. If looking to max the td04 will probably be wise to look for some 440's, td05 I would prob opt for some 550's.

Safe boosting levels - Providing you have decent programmable management and someone who knows what they are doing no reason why you can't max out a td05 at 1.7 bar on that spec engine, you might find the cam efficiency starts to go out the window though with not enough overlap period.

Ring gapping - The specs will be with the pistons mate, normally in a form of equation relevent to your bore size which should be measured.

Running in - I'm a fan of the hard motoman method, if its going to fail it will be in the first 50 miles of driving, so give it some abuse and see what it can take. Providing everything has been built to spec and tolerence there should be no reason for the engine to fail ;)
 
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rwdrev

Member +
cheers Adam. i didnt know wether to run a 1.4 head gasket, cos compression will be high due to the flat tops. im running emu for management.
 
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AdamB

Member +
I would look at measuring the engine first, then you can tweak the headgasket size as to what you want the CR to be, or what your tuner thinks would be best suited. As at the end of the day they are the one mapping it and have to be comfortable with what they are working with.
The flat tops give a fairly high CR, I think I measured one out to be around 8.8:1 with a 1.2mm gasket and stock 38cc combustion chamber.
 
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rwdrev

Member +
how do i measure the cr? i am crap with maths also, lol. its a standard 5efe with pistons being 74.5. and also, for measuring the head cc, would that have to be done by using one of them burette things?

starting to see why people say there is more to engine building than just putting it together.

what would be a good cr to aim for?

i havnt a tuner at the moment, im just taking the engine to the machine shop and getting them to do the boring and crank work, then do the build myself
 
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AdamB

Member +
Use an online calculator mate, they are pretty accurate but prefer using the equation method myself.

Yeah measure the cylinder head combustion chamber with a burette in ml (milli litres) 1ml = 1cc. Ideally you will also want a thin bit of perspex, with a hole drilled through the middle to place on top of the chamber, smear a bit of copper grease round the edges to help it stick :)

Ay you can throw an engine together if you wish, but I wouldn't take bets on how long it will last.

Aim for something around the stock CR 8.2:1, the CR seems to have held up plenty of abuse from a few engines running big specs, should easily be able to max a td05 with that.
 
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rwdrev

Member +
pistons and rods have arrived. :D:D:D hope to have arp main bolts ordered on friday, shells the weekend after, then i am ready for machine work.

i wil also order a burette for measureing the head cc's, tho might put on another head that i have started to port and polish ;)
 
BallıGee

BallıGee

Member +
AdamB said:
I would look at measuring the engine first, then you can tweak the headgasket size as to what you want the CR to be, or what your tuner thinks would be best suited. As at the end of the day they are the one mapping it and have to be comfortable with what they are working with.
The flat tops give a fairly high CR, I think I measured one out to be around 8.8:1 with a 1.2mm gasket and stock 38cc combustion chamber.
Click to expand...

not to sure how your getting 8.8/1 try 9.6/1 +-
 
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rwdrev

Member +
i was thinking of a 1.6 head gasket. also speaking to an engine builder and says that acl bearings are not the greatest, and mentioned using oe toyota, as with the last build, the acl i used, with the polished crank were thru to copper after only 500 miles.

also, he mentioned that after a regrind the cranks are weakend. any one else running big power on a reground crank?
 
BallıGee

BallıGee

Member +
rwdrev said:
i was thinking of a 1.6 head gasket. also speaking to an engine builder and says that acl bearings are not the greatest, and mentioned using oe toyota, as with the last build, the acl i used, with the polished crank were thru to copper after only 500 miles.

also, he mentioned that after a regrind the cranks are weakend. any one else running big power on a reground crank?
Click to expand...

put it this way a 1.4mm zep gasket has 6.6cc my flat top pistons have deeper and wider pockets (custom) and at tdc 2.7 cc with my head cc aswell it makes 9.3/1 cr

with regards to bearings toyota all cross each other in size so more care is needed by machine shop for clearance and oil pressure ! but i would advise not to use these on the mains

also sounds like the clearances were not to spec on your last build

with regards to your aim c/r i hope your piston tops have enough meat too make a dish your engineer should go over this with you as to what and how you want to use the car !
 
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rwdrev

Member +
so would i be better to get a dish put into the pistons, or could i still run the flat tops with a thicker gasket?
 
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Murray

Member +
An 8.8 comp ratio isnt high?
How come the Starlet world aims for super low compression numbers? Are the blocks weak? Or is the limiting factor head bolts or mains?
My Honda open deck block is around 9.0/9.5 and it runs a bar of boost no problem.

Murray
 
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rwdrev

Member +
BallıGee said:
go in the chat room if you want?
Click to expand...

never used it before, lol. im on most nights around 10 ish, drop me a pmand go from there

think il just go for a 1.6 gasket and run about 1.5/7 bar on td05 and see what it does, lol. mite even drop it off to another engine shop local and see if they can work out the CR for me, cos i aint a clue. i can measure the head cc's, thats easy bit, but lost with the maths to calculate the final sum, lol. i can build it easy enuf, just the maths part fooks me up.
 
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rwdrev

Member +
cheers john, but i havnt the money to splash out straight away, so i am gathering bits as and when i can afford them.

does any1 know the cr of flatops with standar head? and would i be able to remove some meat from the combustion chambers to reduce cr again?
 
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