Homemade h pattern gearbox to sequential paddle shifter

350ep70gr

350ep70gr

Member +
Hi guys! I was out of the community for a while because of an accident who kept me on bed for a few months. But now i am back again on action!

With a friend of mine we built a system that can be attached to almost any gearbox easily and doing what the title says.
This is not very starlet related just YET...!!
Hope you like it!

First video is the testing on the bench...
Second video is the system on action in car. (punto mkii b)

If you really like it i will come back with all the details and all the fuctions the system can do!

Mods if you think it is not belong here feel free to move it to chill out place. I put it here as it will follow the ep version!
Enjoy...!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P0LiWrZx3E&feature=g-all-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6bCeb1H-Zw

Chris
 
Rob H

Rob H

Member +
Glad your on the mend mate!

Thats a brill set you and there some work gone into that!! for a proto type that works brill!! good work mate!
 
MarcoGTTurbo

MarcoGTTurbo

Member +
looking at the videos theres a lot of work gone into it, but I just have one question? why?

Is a auto not going to achieve the same thing?

if not

Is this thing going to be cheaper than a fully sequential box conversion? If not I cant see the point ?

cheers :)
 
weeJohn

weeJohn

Lifer
An auto will not do the same thing as a manual box, ever.

This looks like it works really well, shifts are a little on the slow side to make it a useful drag/race tool but I am sure you can speed them up in time.

I also know you have made it this way to have a choice of hand or electric shifting, but if the rams were operating at the gearbox rather than the stick, it may be a little simpler to program.
 
A

AdamB

Member +
Looks very good indeed. It will shift slow because it is not a sequential setup, therefore still using the H pattern takes longer time to disengage and engage another gear. However the principle is there, looks very well made and well setup.

Comparing this to a sequential box is not possible because it has 2 different operations.
 
350ep70gr

350ep70gr

Member +
Hi Guys
Thanks for all the kind comments! Very glad you like it!
Paul_JJ said:
Good setup here! Well done! What would be the price?
Click to expand...
Due to the fact the company we work for has a relation with companys like Festo/SMC/Siemens etc and we have a generous disqunt to their products we pay at about 1000euros...at about 850-900GBP for everything.

Fatman said:
Highly impressive, definitely keen to see some flat out bang shifting!

Well done!
Click to expand...
We have tested flat out shifting and does that just fine..repetably...Keep in mind this is an n/a car with 100hp. We change at 6900 all gears with no issues.

MarcoGTTurbo said:
looking at the videos theres a lot of work gone into it, but I just have one question? why?

Is a auto not going to achieve the same thing?

if not

Is this thing going to be cheaper than a fully sequential box conversion? If not I cant see the point ?

cheers :)
Click to expand...
It is a point... keep reading and i will explain the pros in the next paragraph

weeJohn said:
An auto will not do the same thing as a manual box, ever.

This looks like it works really well, shifts are a little on the slow side to make it a useful drag/race tool but I am sure you can speed them up in time.

I also know you have made it this way to have a choice of hand or electric shifting, but if the rams were operating at the gearbox rather than the stick, it may be a little simpler to program.
Click to expand...
This is almost the slower speed it can operate.At the video it works at 4 bar.The system can work at 12 bar wich mean 3 full time faster from gear to gear..but i dont think the fiat gearbox or any syncro gearbox can handle that. 150msec changing a gear can only do a massive dissaster.Our system can do it...gearbox just cant keep up.

AdamB said:
Looks very good indeed. It will shift slow because it is not a sequential setup, therefore still using the H pattern takes longer time to disengage and engage another gear. However the principle is there, looks very well made and well setup.

Comparing this to a sequential box is not possible because it has 2 different operations.
Click to expand...

It can shift as fast as you want. It can shift way faster that the gearbox can handle to syncronize from gear to gear.
When you look inside the gearbox sequential boxes and our boxes are very common...For example if you look at a bike gearbox and how it is operate it is very simmilar with a car box..at the way it moves the forks.Dont be confused with unsyncro (dog boxes).
 
HYBRID

HYBRID

Super Moderator <a href="http://www.toyotagtturbo.
glad to have you back chris :D

seems like a very interesting airshift project :)

keep us posted!
kon
 
350ep70gr

350ep70gr

Member +
The idea behind our construction was...to be able to change gears as fast as possible, with the safest way without damaging the gearbox and do that repetably without missing gears..crunch syncros etc.
The system has two doozins of fuctions that cant be seen at the videos for obvious reasons.I will explain some of them.

At first the system is fully adjustable. Syncro boxes has a limit of at about 500-600msec for changing a gear.If you go faster than that you will damage the syncros if you go slower than that then you miss the perfect gear change.No human can do clutch press...gear change...clutch release at the exactly SAME preprogramed time...ANY TIME..ALL THE TIMES..
How many of us we have miss a gear or we have loose the perfect rpm point or changing to a wrong gear..?Think about that..

The system can be programed differend for any gear..for example fast 1 to 2..slower..2to 3..then again faster from 3 to 4..etc.
The clutch has some modes too...fastest release or slow release for city driving..can go as slower as you cant uderstand you have just change to a different gear.
Clutch can also be used in manual mode so the driver will press the clutch and the system will just complete the gear change at a perfect manner..
Or the driver can select and roll with 1 gear then preselect 2 and when he want that 2second gear bo be engaged he just hit the clutch...then preselect the next gear..and just hit the clutch the specific time he wants..
Can also auto press a bit of the gas petal on downshift if it is nessecary.
Has a lot of safety programming too... If something fails...will auto press the clutch and return to N immediatly..
If it cant engaged for a specific time...it has the option to try X times...or trying for X time and then return to N..
It can mesure and monitor the time from gear to gear and can be programmed to do anything we want if the time is slower or faster than the wanted time..
It can handle an rpm signal from a standalone and do everything automaticly all changing of all gears at a preprogramed way.. for example individual rpms for any gear..
It has the safety if someone holds the gear stick and feels negative force to return to N
If someone press the button two times..or X times fast will do nothing..
It has sensor failure look up table..so it can do any preprogramed action if something happens
It can do self diagnosis..pressure monitor/adjustment ..speed adjustment...
What else you want from a homemade system...?
It can do a few things more...but it is better to see them in an ep vesion video...!!
If anyone want to help us to improve the system as for safety or any other suggestion..he is welcome to suggest any fuction. We have the 3/4 of the programming memory of the PLC empty...!
The plc can be expanded with analog/digital i/o s can bus so it can do few other things as for example nos control,4 egt sensor,relay functions but those are byond the scope of what he have made it for!

Chris
 
350ep70gr

350ep70gr

Member +
HYBRID said:
glad to have you back chris :D

seems like a very interesting airshift project :)

keep us posted!
kon
Click to expand...
Hey KON my friend!!! How are you doing dude...I was informed a few months back that you have achieved some really cranking times down the 1/4 but i was not able to use a computer...to confirm! Any links dude ...i wana see you braking the clocks...!!Post here a link or send me a pm..!!
 
weeJohn

weeJohn

Lifer
You have certainly thought of quite a lot when programming it, the system looks very fool proof and is a credit to all involved. If you are looking for some input, all I could suggest is a speed monitoring input so as a down shift cannot be selected that would cause the engine to over rev, dont know if you have another analogue input available on the logo for that but?
 
350ep70gr

350ep70gr

Member +
weeJohn said:
You have certainly thought of quite a lot when programming it, the system looks very fool proof and is a credit to all involved. If you are looking for some input, all I could suggest is a speed monitoring input so as a down shift cannot be selected that would cause the engine to over rev, dont know if you have another analogue input available on the logo for that but?
Click to expand...

Weejohn how you doing dude! Hope you are fine..! Yes i forgot to mention that it is writen in the memory to not downshift over a specific rpm point but it is dissable on the fiat as we can not share rpm signal from oem ecu (actually it is not my car and dont really want to mesh with the wiring) but i have made it megasquirting mine with an msii so when i will replicate everything to mine i will use this fuction too.It is also written to the memory a mode to down shiftby itsown..when for example come to a stop with 4 gear etc. Thanks for the input!
I dont do any programming for now. This is the job of my friend panoramix the owner of the Fiat. My programming knowlege is very basic.He does that at he is doing it very good and very impressive.

Chris
 
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