how to get around the 270-280bhp mark?

[Guye]

"road" wasnt mentioned.... what was said was you will loose all power/torque through wheels spin in "every gear"..... thats far from the truth espeacially at 280HP lol.....
FWD, RWD or 4WD all have limits on road and on track...... there are alot more acceptions on the drag strip.

I think the main point here is whats the limit of the "chassis" .... As that plays the biggest part around a track... the desighn of the chassis not its drivetrain....

I'd like to see how well a 300HP RWD starlet would be out on the track..... Personally, i wouldnt have faith....

4wd will also have its limit but would be higher.... The understeer would be sickening with huge power..... so there would only be a certain limit to how fast you could actually go around that bend......

I stand corrected. I should have worded it better. My GT probably have around 200-210hp ATF. The slightest drizzle, any rain whatsoever and I become a slug. I cannot use that small bit of power in those type of conditions because of my hybrid quick spoolup. On regular dry road driving the only isssue is slight torque steer since my hybrid spools from 1100rpm and hits 15psi by around 2700rpm. There is a scary "kick" right in the low rpm range that is a handful to control. I never said you will lose "all" of your power through wheelspin, but I am certain will lose "much" of it. I can only imagine the horrors I would have controlling a 280whp FWD on Barbados' twisty roads. I cannot see anyone being able to pratically use all of that power in our driving conditions, except for on a drag strip, or illegal street race (I DO NOT STREET RACE).

 

[Guye]

Thx G6 Turbo

After an encounter with a V6 MR2 lastnight (he got smoked) I really need to get a LSD fitted. I am losing so much speed in corners.

I am discussing the purchase of a C56 gearbox at the moment and the plan is to rebuild and drop in a TRD helical LSD

Took this from GEE's excellent project thread. This sums up what I was trying to say really. It's my mistake for ridiculously assuming Bajan road conditions could even be similar to U.K. motorways, our speed limit is 60km with a max of 80km on the highway. I admit I messed up there. As you can see, in situations like mine, 280bhp will be wasted.

 

[goldenvtr]

i bet most people saying "that power is unusable" have never owned a high power FWD. If u though it was unusable i wouldnt keep going for more power all the time
The driver makes the power usable, jsut because you have 280bhp dosnt mean you use all of it all the time. gradually put down the power using the throttle its the burst of power/torque that brakes the traction this also relates to a smooth power curve. if you had no power untill 5k then WHACK loads of it, of course your going to spin the wheels. theres always various parts ect to accomodate power. and yes no matter what your driving a car car only go round a corner at X amount of speed regardless of power

 

[Gee]

Took this from GEE's excellent project thread. This sums up what I was trying to say really. It's my mistake for ridiculously assuming Bajan road conditions could even be similar to U.K. motorways, our speed limit is 60km with a max of 80km on the highway. I admit I messed up there. As you can see, in situations like mine, 280bhp will be wasted.

Hey there,

Bought the TRD LSD now

275hp and I drive the car EVERYDAY. I drive it everyday to work, in rush hour, stop start motoring. I have no issues with putting all the power down at all in the dry. Obviously in the wet yes, but people with a CT9 will! At the end of the day, don't drive silly or fast in the wet anyway, so that not an issue.

The TD04L hits boost a bit later than your turbo, so I don't have the suddden torque blast low down the rev range. When it does come in, I can put all the power down from 2nd gear onwards (most of the time!).

Obviously my TRD LSD will help, but the main reason I bought it was because of the CORNERING speeds. This is where I was losing grip and understeering.

As you can see from my mod list, I have not neglected the chassis and brake area. There are still some more brake and chassis mods to come, even after the TRD LSD!

Seriously, don't compare the sudden boost of a CT9 to a bigger turbo like the TD04L, its a different drive.

 

[Si_Glanza]

i bet most people saying "that power is unusable" have never owned a high power FWD. If u though it was unusable i wouldnt keep going for more power all the time
The driver makes the power usable

Amen to that Brother! lol I agree i had 230bhp and it was more than usable
"in my hands" thats why im upping to 1.4bar!
Why are you going fast in the wet? Madness you can make fwd go half well in the wet but isnt worth it.

 

[Gee]

To be honest, driving when it is damp is a lot of fun!

Torque steer, wheel spin...I love taming the beast!

Obviously being careful and taking note of other road users and the like!

 

[GTti]

I've spent all week looking at IHI compressors to obtain the perfect turbo for my race car. It's obviously the key component defining the characteristics for any turbo charged car.

I've found the compressor with a trim inbetween that of the sock and usual hybrid. And has pretty much resolved my troubles of finding the ultimate turbo, 1BAR at well under 4,000RPM and 1.5BAR all the way to 8,000RPM. Now there is a useable figure across the entire range not suffering at either end.

I still struggle to understand the aspect of having too big a turbo to create that BHP bragging figure. In Gees scenario looking from his graph the delivery looks far better than most other large turbo setups - it looks driveable (It pains me to say ). As he mentioned there is no sudden jump in torque or power to unsettle the car - it looks as if it can be put to ground.

In the scenario of a laggy high powered FWD 4EFTE, the gearing simply isn't there to take advantage of the setup you have - you could understand a little more should it rev to 8500RPM or more. By the time you've come into peak power you need to change gear and start over.

It's all about that fine balance.

As mentioned above a 220bhp car can be far quicker than a 280bhp car from 0-100, in road or most race tracks across the UK - it depends where the majority of your period is spent within what range, and then what power you have available either side of that range.

Heres an example of a spec pretty useless (From a GTti)
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v254/155/85/1012428038/n1012428038_30076758_3707.jpg

Impressive but you only get 2,000RPM of peak power. Crap.

 

[Adam_Glanza]

yeah it only really starts to kick in at 4500, which with a small engines lack of torque isnt too good really

its horses for courses at the end of the day.

if your track driving response / control is more important.

on the strip hey all out power

 

[Gee]

In Gees scenario looking from his graph the delivery looks far better than most other large turbo setups - it looks driveable (It pains me to say ). As he mentioned there is no sudden jump in torque or power to unsettle the car -it looks as if it can be put to ground.

Thanks

I totally understand what you are saying. If my car was not driveable, I would of changed the setup.

 

[Guye]

I still struggle to understand the aspect of having too big a turbo to create that BHP bragging figure. In Gees scenario looking from his graph the delivery looks far better than most other large turbo setups - it looks driveable (It pains me to say ). As he mentioned there is no sudden jump in torque or power to unsettle the car - it looks as if it can be put to ground.

In the scenario of a laggy high powered FWD 4EFTE, the gearing simply isn't there to take advantage of the setup you have - you could understand a little more should it rev to 8500RPM or more. By the time you've come into peak power you need to change gear and start over.

I have to agree that GEE's power curve looks great. It's very progressive with no sudden spikes. Sad to say, my experience with larger turbo/big power setups consists of guys having to rev to 4500-5000rpm then launching to get any turbo reponse. I drove a workmate's GT with some TD05 variant, and most of the time it felt like there was no turbo, with half open throttle (I use 1/8-1/4 throttle to get 10psi on my hybrid). On two straight roads did I start to get the feel of how powerful the car is...yet I did not enjoy the drive. I'll happily admit the Gee has proven big power can be done right Well done Gee.

 

[Gee]

Thanks for the comments mate.

I have not cut corners with the engine build either (not many!), as everything was fully balanced too, which will help with acceleration, plus it has been mapped with a standalone ECU for full control.

I had not done any headwork thou. Would this only help with top end and would it sacrifice low down torque if I had some head work?

 

[GTti]

I had not done any headwork thou. Would this only help with top end and would it sacrifice low down torque if I had some head work?

It'll help the flow regardless of where you are, should improve low end and midrange too. Don't have to go over board, on my GTxx it's just the casting marks that were smoothed.

 

[Dan3SGTE]

depends what head work.... if we are talking about cams/shafts etc then yes...... If were talking about port and polishing then as GTTi said will help flow at all revs.....

 

[Gee]

Cool, I was thinking of just a port and polish.

Maybe something to consider for the future.