TD04 Spool Time, Not the usual question..

[sx_turbo]

Course you would have done ricky

yeah if i could tune i would do that, but i cant so i wont

 

[sammy]

Hybrid is it possable to do the same by retarding the timing and going richer? Have you tried both? Which is better?

 

[mak-turbo]

get a cusco flywheel and cams make the engine get up rpm's faster

 

[gorganl2000]

Hybrid is it possable to do the same by retarding the timing and going richer? Have you tried both? Which is better?

i dont think that would work...it should make things spool slower amongst other things

 

[Phil]

funny bearing in mind that i know nothing, but ive heard that on some very high hp cars they map them rich as they come on boost to keep temps down and density of exhasut gas up, extra density and weight of exhaust gas will have a greater push on the turbine, and the instant the turbo spools the fuel is back onto your ideal AFR.

this ive heard and i know a well respected local tuning company that does it, and get good results. not saying its right or wrong, just throwing it out there.

Phil

 

[gorganl2000]

phil...one thing i know/learned over the years....there's usually more than one way to skin a cat...lol

so maybe there is some logic to what u heard

do u know where there is a stock ep91/82 set up a/f ratio graph on this site....it may help us in seeing how the a/f ratio behaves in stock form...then we can always compare to the several modified set up a/f graphs that are here
this is just a base to start from --if u get where i'm coming from

but i know for sure a lot of tuners here tend to use the method hybrid spoke of to induce spool via higher cylinder pressures (leaning and timing) just before you hit any serious boost.....using this approach, the person should know what they are doing and know when to add back in fuel (take out timing),,,,as taking it too far could result in BOOM:haha:

 

[350ep70gr]

Hybrid is it possable to do the same by retarding the timing and going richer? Have you tried both? Which is better?

Could be a possibility to do this and have good results because when you retard the timing by a fair amount ignition event will pass to the manifold and fuel will be burnt just before the turbo blades(wich isnt good for manifold long life) producing big pressure and heat. Like als on rally cars.
From my point of view benefits can occure when on line waiting green light or during shifting gears.
Dont know tho if possible and how to from the map (only) of emb.

Chris

 

[durmz]

Never really considered that...i didnt think the density of the air affected the pressure, but you saying that now i dont know

lol it may be negligable tbh! but the effect must be there, even if so slight i suppose.

 

[gorganl2000]

Could be a possibility to do this and have good results because when you retard the timing by a fair amount ignition event will pass to the manifold and fuel will be burnt just before the turbo blades(wich isnt good for manifold long life) producing big pressure and heat. Like als on rally cars.
From my point of view benefits can occure when on line waiting green light or during shifting gears.
Dont know tho if possible and how to from the map (only) of emb.

Chris

that's really my query with it chris,,,,the fact that it would result in unburn fuel possibly igniting in the manifold/turbo/exhaust system and the impacts it would have on those components depending on its severity

i guess its a good way to get some flames out your exhaust too:haha:

 

[HYBRID]

that's really my query with it chris,,,,the fact that it would result in unburn fuel possibly igniting in the manifold/turbo/exhaust system and the impacts it would have on those components depending on its severity

i guess its a good way to get some flames out your exhaust too:haha:

good point.. however this would be most useful when launching // changing gear... as when u retard the timing ur slowing things down alot, sure the turbo will start spooling much faster, however the rev buildup will be much slower, this funnily enough will also result in hihger egt's BUT only because the explosion is occuring further away from the cylinder.. in actual fact the cylinders are kept cooler as the fuel cools the cylinders down, till ignited later on..

it is most effective in launch control//anti lag, cause there is a preset amount of revs chose & it is kept limited at that amount, ie ur not trying to gain rev velocity but pressure buildup

hope my ramblings make sense to anybody :haha:

kon

 

[350ep70gr]

good point.. however this would be most useful when launching // changing gear... as when u retard the timing ur slowing things down alot, sure the turbo will start spooling much faster, however the rev buildup will be much slower, this funnily enough will also result in hihger egt's BUT only because the explosion is occuring further away from the cylinder.. in actual fact the cylinders are kept cooler as the fuel cools the cylinders down, till ignited later on..

it is most effective in launch control//anti lag, cause there is a preset amount of revs chose & it is kept limited at that amount, ie ur not trying to gain rev velocity but pressure buildup

hope my ramblings make sense to anybody :haha:

kon

I wish i could explain myshelf like this!:rockon:

Chris

 

[350ep70gr]

i guess its a good way to get some flames out your exhaust too:haha:

Flames are guranteed mate!


Chris

 

[gorganl2000]

good point.. however this would be most useful when launching // changing gear... as when u retard the timing ur slowing things down alot, sure the turbo will start spooling much faster, however the rev buildup will be much slower, this funnily enough will also result in hihger egt's BUT only because the explosion is occuring further away from the cylinder.. in actual fact the cylinders are kept cooler as the fuel cools the cylinders down, till ignited later on..

it is most effective in launch control//anti lag, cause there is a preset amount of revs chose & it is kept limited at that amount, ie ur not trying to gain rev velocity but pressure buildup

hope my ramblings make sense to anybody :haha:

kon

i understand what you are sayng about the usefulness of this strategy in launch control and anti-lag (depending on the system used).....the emu seems to build on this principle with its LC...

but, every1 will do things as they see fit.....once they are ok with the impacts :haha::haha:.....not every1 is well clued or told in advance:haha:

 

[Phil]

i think the tuner that i mentioned was adding fuel, without retarding timing much so as to gain a better/greater weight of exhaust gas without the sluggishness you encounter with retarded timing..

Phil

 

[J25GTi]

Kon,

that is brilliant, what a well worded answer, but can this be done on an emb?

would love to do that... Repped

 

[HYBRID]

Kon,

that is brilliant, what a well worded answer, but can this be done on an emb?

would love to do that... Repped

hehe

well it can be done on the emb, but only to a certain degree, you see the biggest problem about the emb is that when you alter the fuel map, the emb to adjust fueling also alters the ignition map. It does have the power to achieve this, but its a bit more of a bitch to get right, as ull have to reconfigure timing & fueling a few times to get the map the way u want it.

hope that helps.
kon

 

[HYBRID]

i understand what you are sayng about the usefulness of this strategy in launch control and anti-lag (depending on the system used).....the emu seems to build on this principle with its LC...

but, every1 will do things as they see fit.....once they are ok with the impacts :haha::haha:.....not every1 is well clued or told in advance:haha:

well said buddy

yes the emu does put this principle well into action, the way the launch control & subsequently the rpm limiter are set to cut off ignition Vs the oem ecu cuts fuel, already makes a big difference.

I was mearly trying to debate the reaction to both really, ie in which instance to use what, for ex it would be pointless to advance the timing during launch control as that wont give any benefit to power buildup.. vice versa imo when trying to get rev speed up & the turbo to spool quicker..

hope im making sense .. i think i ramble to much :haha:

kon

 

[J25GTi]

hehe

well it can be done on the emb, but only to a certain degree, you see the biggest problem about the emb is that when you alter the fuel map, the emb to adjust fueling also alters the ignition map. It does have the power to achieve this, but its a bit more of a bitch to get right, as ull have to reconfigure timing & fueling a few times to get the map the way u want it.

hope that helps.
kon

will it be able to do it enough to make a decent difference?

 

[gorganl2000]

well said buddy

yes the emu does put this principle well into action, the way the launch control & subsequently the rpm limiter are set to cut off ignition Vs the oem ecu cuts fuel, already makes a big difference.

I was mearly trying to debate the reaction to both really, ie in which instance to use what, for ex it would be pointless to advance the timing during launch control as that wont give any benefit to power buildup.. vice versa imo when trying to get rev speed up & the turbo to spool quicker..

hope im making sense .. i think i ramble to much :haha:

kon

no u are not rambling kon....i understand you completely..and i agree.....i think we are on the same wave lenght in our logic

but again---different strokes for different folkes....lol.....i think people wil use whatever method(S) they are comfortable with to achieve thier ends

seems like we would share the same method though

 

[HYBRID]

will it be able to do it enough to make a decent difference?

it should be able to.. just a little harder to get it done right.

kon