SiTRD
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they do get bigger engines because there roads are different. americans dont do cornering very well. my cousin told me that
can a starlet or glanza ever handle like an EK9
- Thread starter mikeylove
- Start date
they do get bigger engines because there roads are different. americans dont do cornering very well. my cousin told me that
riko666
Member +
Indeed there are too many netsperts, and too many people that follow what they say without actual experience of their own - in the end, a persons personal opinion will settle the case for their own setup, there's going to be people that argue against even the most professional of opinions, partly for the sake of arguing, but partly cause they will believe their opinion until proven otherwise.
I can't quite get the point I'm trying to get across - I can only use OEM examples of how Customer Feedback to BMW from the UK was that the ride quality on the Run-flats was too harsh for UK conditions...as a result, BMW has started doing a lot more Ride Quality Evaluation on the UK roads. It's not going to be as Black & White as "the car was developed in Japan, it's going to suck anywhere else", it's not the point I was trying to make...but I was trying to enforce the "Everything has it's purpose" point, and when evaluating suspension components, they are going to be tailored (in fine-tuning) to the environment in where they are tested. This is not to say at all that a coilover won't be suited at all to your needs or your conditions, they are not designed to be perfect for the 30km stretch of road on the Outskirts of Osaka type thing - but I'm pretty sure, things could be tailored for our roads, i.e. there is room for improvement.
Forget the American car debacle, that's a bit of a mis-judgement of mine as it's more Market driven than anything, as you rightly said.
I can't quite get the point I'm trying to get across - I can only use OEM examples of how Customer Feedback to BMW from the UK was that the ride quality on the Run-flats was too harsh for UK conditions...as a result, BMW has started doing a lot more Ride Quality Evaluation on the UK roads. It's not going to be as Black & White as "the car was developed in Japan, it's going to suck anywhere else", it's not the point I was trying to make...but I was trying to enforce the "Everything has it's purpose" point, and when evaluating suspension components, they are going to be tailored (in fine-tuning) to the environment in where they are tested. This is not to say at all that a coilover won't be suited at all to your needs or your conditions, they are not designed to be perfect for the 30km stretch of road on the Outskirts of Osaka type thing - but I'm pretty sure, things could be tailored for our roads, i.e. there is room for improvement.
Forget the American car debacle, that's a bit of a mis-judgement of mine as it's more Market driven than anything, as you rightly said.
Gee
Member +
hardcoreep
Member +
In stock trim, but that is to be expected given their purposes. The question as to whether the EP is handicapped over the EK that to me is nonsense.
I just has a big suspension day recently and I will tell you what I've learned. The suspension's function is to maintain as much contact with the road as possible via the tyre. Handling is a black art and is different than the function of the suspension. Its based on user needs, but ultimately there is a point where it supersedes that. For example a driver may like a car that handles with oversteer or understeer, but maximum utilization of the tyre grip will always give the best result.
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Gee
Member +
While we are on the subject, can I ask what part of the suspension helps with stabability?
Every Starlet owner that gets a passenger ride in my car always comments about how stable and safe it is at high speeds compared to their Starlets.
Rick had a ride in it lastnight and commented on the exact same thing and he runs uprated Koni shocks and springs. So what is it that produces this result?
Every Starlet owner that gets a passenger ride in my car always comments about how stable and safe it is at high speeds compared to their Starlets.
Rick had a ride in it lastnight and commented on the exact same thing and he runs uprated Koni shocks and springs. So what is it that produces this result?
hardcoreep
Member +
Define high speed stability. Is it stable on straights, through the corners, or both.
High speed stability on the straight is simply due to aerodynamic properties of the lowering the car. The other side of the equation is dampening, the dampers have to be able to not transfer any irregularities of the road surface.
Here are two extremes.
1: My car was lowered 2inches to the ground and had high speed stability, unless the road was smooth. With little or no suspension travel the car couldn't move, and being that low to the ground meant no air under the car to disturb it. However, under braking or rough segments the car was very nervous and twitchy. This was because the entire car would react to the bumps, and being that low still didn't address the issues of under/oversteer weight transfer. It had a horrible low speed ride, again due to lack of suspension travel. So high speed stability on smooth roads, poor low speed ride, and poor high speed cornering.
2: My Tein Hard Springs don't lower the car, it maintains the factory ride height, but are very stiff approaching coil-over figures. These were paired with factory dampers which are very soft, but the car also had high speed stability, as well as high speed cornering. The negative was only a choppy low speed ride. Why? Since ride height was stock the damper had proper travel meaning when it hit irregularities it was able to react and not simply transfer the shock to the car. The high spring rates also required very hard impacts to upset them and also countered weight transfer under cornering. Low speed ride was bad as the softer dampers couldn't keep up with the frequency of impacts.
High speed stability on the straight is simply due to aerodynamic properties of the lowering the car. The other side of the equation is dampening, the dampers have to be able to not transfer any irregularities of the road surface.
Here are two extremes.
1: My car was lowered 2inches to the ground and had high speed stability, unless the road was smooth. With little or no suspension travel the car couldn't move, and being that low to the ground meant no air under the car to disturb it. However, under braking or rough segments the car was very nervous and twitchy. This was because the entire car would react to the bumps, and being that low still didn't address the issues of under/oversteer weight transfer. It had a horrible low speed ride, again due to lack of suspension travel. So high speed stability on smooth roads, poor low speed ride, and poor high speed cornering.
2: My Tein Hard Springs don't lower the car, it maintains the factory ride height, but are very stiff approaching coil-over figures. These were paired with factory dampers which are very soft, but the car also had high speed stability, as well as high speed cornering. The negative was only a choppy low speed ride. Why? Since ride height was stock the damper had proper travel meaning when it hit irregularities it was able to react and not simply transfer the shock to the car. The high spring rates also required very hard impacts to upset them and also countered weight transfer under cornering. Low speed ride was bad as the softer dampers couldn't keep up with the frequency of impacts.
Gee
Member +
I see what you mean.
Well, they never said specifically if it was corners or straights, hopefully they meant both! My car is not slammed, but is not stock ride height either, I would say it is a happy medium. This person's Starlet is not stock ride height either, so may of gained some more stabability on high speed straights.
My damping settings are on the harsh side at the moment. On really bad condition roads with lots of bumps and holes, it seems the the car does not grip properly when enjoying some spirited driving, as the rev's alter (hopping). I would assume this is because the front tyres are not maintaining contact with the ground? Can this be rectified by softer damping settings?
Well, they never said specifically if it was corners or straights, hopefully they meant both! My car is not slammed, but is not stock ride height either, I would say it is a happy medium. This person's Starlet is not stock ride height either, so may of gained some more stabability on high speed straights.
My damping settings are on the harsh side at the moment. On really bad condition roads with lots of bumps and holes, it seems the the car does not grip properly when enjoying some spirited driving, as the rev's alter (hopping). I would assume this is because the front tyres are not maintaining contact with the ground? Can this be rectified by softer damping settings?
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I think should be able to create understeer or oversteer depending on what you want. (but you also can use your Whiteline rear swaybar for that.)
What I woud do is put the swaybar in the middle setting and try to find the best setting on your coilovers.
You can do this to find a good twisty road to test on (which has the properties of the roads you'll be driving the most or you want the best handling) and just do some testing. If you car bumps over asperities you should try a softer setting. Same goes with the rear.
What I woud do is put the swaybar in the middle setting and try to find the best setting on your coilovers.
You can do this to find a good twisty road to test on (which has the properties of the roads you'll be driving the most or you want the best handling) and just do some testing. If you car bumps over asperities you should try a softer setting. Same goes with the rear.
hardcoreep
Member +
Softer front will increase either depending on tyre grip. If the front is too stiff then the contact patch will not change, again dependent on your camber settings. But softer front is usually understeer.
And I go back to my original premise for suspension function. Its about utilizing the tyres, and you have four of them. What you want is a slight four-wheel drift as the weight of the car moves evenly around the corner. You should then be able to create whatever state you want via throttle or brake. This is called neutral handling.
Without a rear panhard rod setting the car up for oversteer isn't one of my recommendations
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hardcoreep
Member +
The rule is softer front understeer, but that's not so in the real world. The tyre grip determines that. If the front is stiff then you may load the tyres past their grip levels and cause the front end to push. A softer tyre may just roll over on its sidewall and provide some extra contact negating the understeer.
You just have to drive and test until you get the desired handling you want. This is what i've done over the past several years.
How'd you manage get camber on the rear of a beam suspension? Even more amazing different numbers.
You just have to drive and test until you get the desired handling you want. This is what i've done over the past several years.
How'd you manage get camber on the rear of a beam suspension? Even more amazing different numbers.
hardcoreep
Member +
Sway bars affect weight transfer. The only other way is staggered ride heights. Lower front is oversteer, lower rear is understeer. This may change under the state of motion of the vehicle. For example high front understeer under acceleration on corner exit, but trail braking through the whole corner will maintain balance.