can a starlet or glanza ever handle like an EK9
- Thread starter mikeylove
- Start date
Gee
Member +
You have to think about the reasons why people want to thou and what you consider as improvements.
You might not want to mess with camber and thrash your road car on track, but some that purchase coilovers may want to.
I used to go on trackdays with the some Williams Clio nutters and they were seriously hardcore.
They did PLENTY of trackdays and many adjustments when it came to track, so obviously in their circumstance, you can see why they opted for coilovers on their road cars.
You might not want to mess with camber and thrash your road car on track, but some that purchase coilovers may want to.
I used to go on trackdays with the some Williams Clio nutters and they were seriously hardcore.
They did PLENTY of trackdays and many adjustments when it came to track, so obviously in their circumstance, you can see why they opted for coilovers on their road cars.
gv1.3
Admin
Good points and to be totally honest I am not sure what way I would have gone if my car had not come from Japan with TRD coilovers already on. Having experienced them though and driven other Glanzas I really prefer mine. And maybe that is down to me being comfortable with it but it handles very very well and I am sure if I were to get a stock Glanza in the future I would put the same coilovers on as I love how it handles and feels.
But as in life people will go and buy the biggest/expensive/brightly coloured and expect miracles.
As for the track days.. well some people go and buy rediculously uncomfortable seats for their cars and never do a track day so I see where the hinderance just outshadows the benefit you might ever get but still people do things for looks etc.
One thing also that might influnce me is that my Glanza hasnt ever been my daily driver so I love the harsh ride of my coilovers every now and then...it adds to the thrill of driving the car.
And just one more thing... (said in a Columbo voice)... sometimes comfort is overrated. Having been driving American cars for the past 5 weeks with their big soft suspensions and crap handling I can honestly say I am glad to be back in "normal" cars.... it is all about balance and I dont think I could live with my Glanza as a daily driver as it would shake my fillings loose!
But as in life people will go and buy the biggest/expensive/brightly coloured and expect miracles.
As for the track days.. well some people go and buy rediculously uncomfortable seats for their cars and never do a track day so I see where the hinderance just outshadows the benefit you might ever get but still people do things for looks etc.
One thing also that might influnce me is that my Glanza hasnt ever been my daily driver so I love the harsh ride of my coilovers every now and then...it adds to the thrill of driving the car.
And just one more thing... (said in a Columbo voice)... sometimes comfort is overrated. Having been driving American cars for the past 5 weeks with their big soft suspensions and crap handling I can honestly say I am glad to be back in "normal" cars.... it is all about balance and I dont think I could live with my Glanza as a daily driver as it would shake my fillings loose!
GTti
Member +
Comon, be realist, you ain't talking about a normal road use coilover but about a race coilover. If you like I can have some of these D2's made for you:
That would be a pain in the ass to setup tho
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Red Hot you only favour D2's as you have them they are not that great mate, read this, written by an independent suspension specialist (look on google there are numerous pages ragarding these issues not just one person:
heres the problems we have with D2's, considering i build dampers day in day out for my job. my opinions on road car dampers are a little skewed as im used to working on Ohlins, which are one of (if not THE) best damper manufacturers in the world, and so most other stuff looks worse to me. but still, ive got real-world perspective and can judge the lower end stuff on its merits...
1. they look pretty, but the anodizing is really poor. it chips off at the slightest contact. especially on the adjustable top mounts, as soon as you adjust the camber it scrapes the anodizing off
2. they are clearly made in China or a Chinese territory, and are made to the cheapest price possible, at the expense of quality. whilst this isnt a specific problem with the damper, it never stands a product in good stead
3. the damper design itself is a generic monotube setup, which can work very well. but the internal design just isnt very good, theres more to mono dampers than just shims on a piston, and its the specific details that set apart the likes of Ohlins and Sachs from crap like Gaz, Leda, D2, etc
4. the people who design the damper, clearly dont look at the car they are intended for....
a) lengths are often too short. this might be done on purpose to lower the car, but its always by too much. so in order to keep the car from being sat on the floor you have to wind the ride height adjustment all the way down. which then means it cant be used for height adjustment any more, except to go lower (and youre already too low)
b) they have adjustable drop link brackets on some of them. but they can never wind into the right place to fit the standard drop links. so you need adjustable ones (which all cars should have anyway if theyre being fitted with proper suspension, so that roll bar preload can be removed)
c) they dont have brake line brackets, etc on them, but they do come with universal ones. except the universal ones never fit as is. ive had to cut, bend and drill them every time to get them to fit how they need to. Tein make shítty dampers, but they do at least have the correct brackets on them!
d) the top mounts often dont sit in the correct orientation for pure camber adjustment. if they dont sit perfectly perpendicular to the car then adjustments will significantly affect castor and toe as well.
5. their user manual recommends tightening spring platform lock rings with a screwdriver and a hammer. anyone who says a screwdrivers use is to be hit with a hammer is a moron. its something you do if youre lazy, uneducated, or have no other choice. but in an official user manual, they should at least recommend using a drift (aka punch). aside from the fact that using c-spanners and pulling them against each other is how race dampers have been working for years, and if done tightly they simply dont come undone! unless D2's spring platforms are poorly toleranced and/or made from crap materials
6. they are sprung WAY too stiff
7. the dampers have WAY too much rebound, and no bump damping. which makes the car feel like a go kart and the driver (assuming they are an average punter whos never driven a properly setup car, or a race car) feel like a hero. but its not genuinely fast, and theres a lot more fun to be had from a properly setup car
8. this kinda relates to point 4, but the dampers often lack droop. this isnt just to the detriment of performance, but on a road car is quite dangerous. not having droop on a bumpy road will result in wheels losing contact with the road completely. which on the driven wheels can lead to the car pulling around side to side. ive seen D2's which when fitted with the supplied springs have less than 5mm of droop travel on the front wheels of a FWD car. which is insane on a road car
just a few things i have observed. the indepedant ride height and spring preload adjustment is a cool idea and reasonably well executed, just with poor quality materials, and on dampers that cant necessarily use it. it also means that drop link, brake line, etc brackets cant be properly mounted to the strut cases.
as dampers though, they are horrific. they would work well on a drift car, il say that for them. but for road use or track use they just arent worth the money. a set of Koni's in standard strut cases, with ground control (or similar) coilover sleeves, running 2.25" or 2.5" universal springs would be FAR better. youve got camber adjustment as standard (and can buy aftermarket camber bolts to give more adjustment if required), and ride height adjustment can still be done just by winding the platforms up or down on the ground control kit. D2's are worthless IMO
heres the problems we have with D2's, considering i build dampers day in day out for my job. my opinions on road car dampers are a little skewed as im used to working on Ohlins, which are one of (if not THE) best damper manufacturers in the world, and so most other stuff looks worse to me. but still, ive got real-world perspective and can judge the lower end stuff on its merits...
1. they look pretty, but the anodizing is really poor. it chips off at the slightest contact. especially on the adjustable top mounts, as soon as you adjust the camber it scrapes the anodizing off
2. they are clearly made in China or a Chinese territory, and are made to the cheapest price possible, at the expense of quality. whilst this isnt a specific problem with the damper, it never stands a product in good stead
3. the damper design itself is a generic monotube setup, which can work very well. but the internal design just isnt very good, theres more to mono dampers than just shims on a piston, and its the specific details that set apart the likes of Ohlins and Sachs from crap like Gaz, Leda, D2, etc
4. the people who design the damper, clearly dont look at the car they are intended for....
a) lengths are often too short. this might be done on purpose to lower the car, but its always by too much. so in order to keep the car from being sat on the floor you have to wind the ride height adjustment all the way down. which then means it cant be used for height adjustment any more, except to go lower (and youre already too low)
b) they have adjustable drop link brackets on some of them. but they can never wind into the right place to fit the standard drop links. so you need adjustable ones (which all cars should have anyway if theyre being fitted with proper suspension, so that roll bar preload can be removed)
c) they dont have brake line brackets, etc on them, but they do come with universal ones. except the universal ones never fit as is. ive had to cut, bend and drill them every time to get them to fit how they need to. Tein make shítty dampers, but they do at least have the correct brackets on them!
d) the top mounts often dont sit in the correct orientation for pure camber adjustment. if they dont sit perfectly perpendicular to the car then adjustments will significantly affect castor and toe as well.
5. their user manual recommends tightening spring platform lock rings with a screwdriver and a hammer. anyone who says a screwdrivers use is to be hit with a hammer is a moron. its something you do if youre lazy, uneducated, or have no other choice. but in an official user manual, they should at least recommend using a drift (aka punch). aside from the fact that using c-spanners and pulling them against each other is how race dampers have been working for years, and if done tightly they simply dont come undone! unless D2's spring platforms are poorly toleranced and/or made from crap materials
6. they are sprung WAY too stiff
7. the dampers have WAY too much rebound, and no bump damping. which makes the car feel like a go kart and the driver (assuming they are an average punter whos never driven a properly setup car, or a race car) feel like a hero. but its not genuinely fast, and theres a lot more fun to be had from a properly setup car
8. this kinda relates to point 4, but the dampers often lack droop. this isnt just to the detriment of performance, but on a road car is quite dangerous. not having droop on a bumpy road will result in wheels losing contact with the road completely. which on the driven wheels can lead to the car pulling around side to side. ive seen D2's which when fitted with the supplied springs have less than 5mm of droop travel on the front wheels of a FWD car. which is insane on a road car
just a few things i have observed. the indepedant ride height and spring preload adjustment is a cool idea and reasonably well executed, just with poor quality materials, and on dampers that cant necessarily use it. it also means that drop link, brake line, etc brackets cant be properly mounted to the strut cases.
as dampers though, they are horrific. they would work well on a drift car, il say that for them. but for road use or track use they just arent worth the money. a set of Koni's in standard strut cases, with ground control (or similar) coilover sleeves, running 2.25" or 2.5" universal springs would be FAR better. youve got camber adjustment as standard (and can buy aftermarket camber bolts to give more adjustment if required), and ride height adjustment can still be done just by winding the platforms up or down on the ground control kit. D2's are worthless IMO
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Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Like mentioned D2/K Sport/G4 (They are all the same) are fine for someone who wants to slam there Starlet and worship the purpleness as they show off to there friends but anyone in the know would look elsewhere if they wanted a truly good setup. In my eyes there is no contest between Koni and D2 regardless of the adjustability, if the quality isn't good to start with then what's the hope!
T
T
sx_turbo
Lifer
sx_turbo
Lifer
ok so if thats the case and d2's, tein etc etc etc, why are you selling them?
that basically just said that all the suspension company's in the world are poop. and that ohlins, and koni are the only ones worth bothering with.
least he didnt slate buddy clubs
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
People want them though bud you have to deliver what the market wants. He isn't referring to all suspension companies he is talking about D2's in particular. It's not like the D2's will kill you they just are not that well designed, you have to look past the adjust ability and anodized purple to see the true colours, yes they will do, but no they are not great
sx_turbo
Lifer
People want them though bud you have to deliver what the market wants. He isn't referring to all suspension companies he is talking about D2's in particular. It's not like the D2's will kill you they just are not that well designed, you have to look past the adjust ability and anodized purple to see the true colours, yes they will do, but no they are not great
na that makes sense dude, give the punters what they want,
it's just strange that for years we've all been told how great these coilovers are, and now suddenly were being told there not really all that
Adam_Glanza
Member +
i think there deemed great as they probably are a improvement over stock, but you can get alot better.
maybe thats reflected in the price tho?
maybe thats reflected in the price tho?
Common, that guy is comparing them to Öhlins shocks, which are the one of the best out there. It's clear that he has got something against anything thats not the best
Some of those arguments don't apply to the Starlet shock. Nice detail he is talking about, is the anodizing. anodizing CAN'T flake off, you can only make a scratch if you go deep enough.
There are only 2 points where he is right and there might be a better choices out there. Internal design. Yes, a top of the line shock like Öhlins has got a beautiful internal design, but it that also one of the reasons its very, very expensive.
Standard Rebound and Dampening settings. That's something you have to live with. These settings can be optimized for every surface and vehicle weight etc.
But for it's price, you get a very very nice piece of kit. D2's also have proven there quality and durability over the years, that's why I bought a set.
About your latest statement: "In my eyes there is no contest between Koni and D2 regardless of the adjust ability, if the quality isn't good to start with then what's the hope!"
I would like to make a bet, that on the same car with proper setup koni's and whiteline springs or proper setup D2's that the coilovers setup would be way better. I've driven both setups...
Koni also does a pretty nice coilovers, but those ain't available for the starlet.
Some of those arguments don't apply to the Starlet shock. Nice detail he is talking about, is the anodizing. anodizing CAN'T flake off, you can only make a scratch if you go deep enough.
There are only 2 points where he is right and there might be a better choices out there. Internal design. Yes, a top of the line shock like Öhlins has got a beautiful internal design, but it that also one of the reasons its very, very expensive.
Standard Rebound and Dampening settings. That's something you have to live with. These settings can be optimized for every surface and vehicle weight etc.
But for it's price, you get a very very nice piece of kit. D2's also have proven there quality and durability over the years, that's why I bought a set.
About your latest statement: "In my eyes there is no contest between Koni and D2 regardless of the adjust ability, if the quality isn't good to start with then what's the hope!"
I would like to make a bet, that on the same car with proper setup koni's and whiteline springs or proper setup D2's that the coilovers setup would be way better. I've driven both setups...
Koni also does a pretty nice coilovers, but those ain't available for the starlet.
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sx_turbo
Lifer
yeah i spose age old saying get what you pay for,
but in that liitle peice toby put up, he also slated a lot of other top manufactures, that are a good twice the price of D2's.
e.g, leda, tein,
@ toby- im not trying to start an argument, this is just out of curiosity.
when my car got written off and i was after some standard shocks so i can take off my buddy clubs, you offered me the koni shocks and springs in return for them.
is this because mine are actually rather good, or was it more just for show type thing?
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
There's nothing wrong with Buddys Ricky which ones did you have junior or racing, are those the ones we imported for you?
@ Red Hot - On the track maybe where the surface is smooth, let's face it though we are talking on the road and I can tell you there would be no advantage, more dis-advantage due to the varying surface conditons If you want to pay to bring me over there I'm more than happy to show you up
@ Red Hot - On the track maybe where the surface is smooth, let's face it though we are talking on the road and I can tell you there would be no advantage, more dis-advantage due to the varying surface conditons
If you want to pay to bring me over there I'm more than happy to show you up 
97'GlanzaVTurbo
Member +
Thought i would jump in on this, All I want to know is are these any good?
RS-R down spring with Kayaba SR damper
Got these on my new car and have to say they feel quite secure and really good round bends.
Christy
RS-R down spring with Kayaba SR damper
Got these on my new car and have to say they feel quite secure and really good round bends.
Christy
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Quite a few cars come with that setup it was pretty popular in Japan altough personally never used it. If your happy with it then that's all that matters
T
T
SiTRD
Member +
my 2 pence
yes people are quite right, an ep will outhandle a ek when suspension is upgraded, but what happens when the ek then upgrades like the ep did? because as far as i am aware from reading what was said, the ek was standard suspension. end of the day suspension should be down to the driver and style they drive at. but i am not a fan of coilovers, too hard i find. uprated shocks and springs are my prefered choice. but it depends what you are using your car for, if your tracking it etc then adjustable is best for obvious road to track differences, but i find for the roads in the uk coilovers are not forgiving with the amount of bad road surfaces we have. thats all i think anyways
yes people are quite right, an ep will outhandle a ek when suspension is upgraded, but what happens when the ek then upgrades like the ep did? because as far as i am aware from reading what was said, the ek was standard suspension. end of the day suspension should be down to the driver and style they drive at. but i am not a fan of coilovers, too hard i find. uprated shocks and springs are my prefered choice. but it depends what you are using your car for, if your tracking it etc then adjustable is best for obvious road to track differences, but i find for the roads in the uk coilovers are not forgiving with the amount of bad road surfaces we have. thats all i think anyways