I want more response..but a bit more power would be nice too!
- Thread starter Gee
- Start date
Adam_Glanza
Member +
i couldnt honestly believe the difference in heat it makes lol,
before i wrapped it the manifold got so hot so fast that you couldnt get anywhere touching it,
after i wrapped it even with 30 mins of spirited driving, you could literally pop the bonnet and press your finger on! it would be warm but nowhere near scaulding you lol i was amazed, best mod for the money imo.
before i wrapped it the manifold got so hot so fast that you couldnt get anywhere touching it,
after i wrapped it even with 30 mins of spirited driving, you could literally pop the bonnet and press your finger on! it would be warm but nowhere near scaulding you lol i was amazed, best mod for the money imo.
Aga
Member +
yes, but, did it improve spooling? in my last engine i just haven't bothered wrapping it up, its a new manifold too, and i wanna see if it will be reliable (so i can watch out for cracks) , other than that, im all for heatwrapping or even better, ceramic coating.
gee, my crank's not lightened, only polished (useless, even bad!) and balanced, along with the flywheel and pulley
gee, my crank's not lightened, only polished (useless, even bad!) and balanced, along with the flywheel and pulley
Gee
Member +
Aga,
Everything was balanced on my engine...pulley, crank, rods, pistons etc. So I should be OK with 8k limit considering yours was fine. I have Cruise valve springs also.
The theory behind the heat wrap suggests it should improve spooling does it not? I am going to go for it. Won't have any cracking worries with my manifold. It's a shitty mild steel one.
Everything was balanced on my engine...pulley, crank, rods, pistons etc. So I should be OK with 8k limit considering yours was fine. I have Cruise valve springs also.
The theory behind the heat wrap suggests it should improve spooling does it not? I am going to go for it. Won't have any cracking worries with my manifold. It's a shitty mild steel one.
For the forged 5E'S, the bottom end is balanced to zero, i.e. the crank/rods/pistons/flywheel & pressure plate and front pulley. They are balanced individually meaning the pistons are weighed and then the machinist makes the three pistons match the weight of the lightest piston. The same thing is done with the rods. By doing it this way if you damage a piston or rod all you will need to do is buy one piston or rod and match the weight to the other three.
Specs for the 363WHP 5E:
Port and polished head standard valves with Web Cam valve springs, standard composite head gasket.
Web Cam specs at .50 thou lift, Intake duration 218 degrees with 8.55mm lift, (factory intake duration 205 degrees & lift 8.35mm)
Exhaust duration 225 degrees with 8.89 lift, (factory exhaust duration 200 degrees & lift 7.75mm)
Fuel system: Walbro 255 fuel pump, 850cc injectors & Aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Intake ACIS intake manifold with all 8 runners open with 4AG throttle body. Standard crank, balanced with Aasco aluminium flywheel & ACT Extreme 200mm pressure plate and 4 puck sprung hub ceramic clutch disc. Pauter steel rods and Ross pistons 9:1CR. Block has to be notched to clear Pauter rods. Custom exhaust schedule 40 mild steel manifold with 1.5 inch internal runners, top mounted T3 turbo. 3 inch downpipe and 3 inch exhaust system. Engine management 4EFTE ECU/Ignitor/coil & wire loom plus eManage Ultimate piggyback, car was only revving to 7200RPM, rev limit needs to be moved to 8500RPM, but the owner is happy where it is, complains that the car hits the limiter too quickly!!
Specs for the 320WHP 5E:
Bottom end balanced as above, fuel system the same, standard crank balanced with Aasco flywheel with Carillo rods and CP pistons 9:1CR. No need to notch the block with the Carillo rods. Port and polished head with standard valves, 5EFHE valve springs and cams. ACIS Intake all 8 runners open with a larger throttle body from a Nissan KA24DE. Custom exhaust manifold as above, top mounted turbo, 3 inch downpipe and 3 inch exhaust system. Engine management as above but currently with the eManage Blue. He will be going stand alone Haltech with Cruise valve springs and cams later this year. There is a video on youtube of this red Tercel beating up on a LS6 Camaro and also on youtube is the white Tercel (368HP) on the dyno. There is also Reality's Tercel fitted with a 4AG turbo. Search Google for Reality's 402WHP Tercel.
Master Power turbo specs for the 320WHP & 363WHP 5E'S.
T3 50 Trim/Stage 2 Turbine wheel Exducer diameter = 49.53mm Mayor diameter = 63.75mm. Compressor wheel Exducer diameter = 42.42mm Mayor diameter = 59.94mm. Exhaust A/R .48 Compressor A/R .42, T3 flange. Remember proper tuning is what makes these engines live a long and happy life. C O R R E C T I O N---The youtube video is titled 363WHP Turbo Tercel Dyno 5EFTE Boost.
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goldenvtr
Member +
Gee i think you need to do a few track days, you might find that your current power is plenty 
im the same i always want more accelaration and the feeling is uber, but why not get a bike licence its alot cheaper then lol.
i really think some trackdays will keep you in the right state of mind.
i think the td04l works great on the 4e and i was pleased from start to finish with it.
i may stick to the td05 with my 5e but im still going to try the vf28 on it.
as for more reponce if thats really what your after why not a k24 or the greddy turbos as konrad mentiond, Danes car showed some great potential with the setup he's gone with!
im the same i always want more accelaration and the feeling is uber, but why not get a bike licence its alot cheaper then lol.i really think some trackdays will keep you in the right state of mind.
i think the td04l works great on the 4e and i was pleased from start to finish with it.
i may stick to the td05 with my 5e but im still going to try the vf28 on it.
as for more reponce if thats really what your after why not a k24 or the greddy turbos as konrad mentiond, Danes car showed some great potential with the setup he's gone with!
prob the best discribed spec list iv seen someone put up in a longggggg time. thanks man I was wondering the specs exactly on thoughs cars as iv seen them on youtube a long time ago! reps!
Rory
Lifer
My car is fine below 3k, even when caught out.
Wonders of Real time mapping.
Famous saying goes, Tuned on the Dyno for the Dyno
Use the car for what you intended it for, thats what im doing.
I dont plan on anything big for it for a while now. I want to enjoy it now.
As for being beat then wanting more, pfft no point.
There will always be someone better out there.
For faster spooling you would have to bump the compression up a bit, obviously not easy on a turbocharged car.
On the ported and polished head, i dont think it will gain response, unless feeding it more boost.
Wether or not you have an N/A or F/I setup, you have to keep the air velocity flowing well, if the ports etc are to big, then the flow slows down, obviously if there to small, then it resticts it.
Ive had a go at doing porting before, but unless you have a flow bench, then you really dont know if you are doing better or worse.
Rory
Wonders of Real time mapping.
Famous saying goes, Tuned on the Dyno for the Dyno
Use the car for what you intended it for, thats what im doing.
I dont plan on anything big for it for a while now. I want to enjoy it now.
As for being beat then wanting more, pfft no point.
There will always be someone better out there.
For faster spooling you would have to bump the compression up a bit, obviously not easy on a turbocharged car.
On the ported and polished head, i dont think it will gain response, unless feeding it more boost.
Wether or not you have an N/A or F/I setup, you have to keep the air velocity flowing well, if the ports etc are to big, then the flow slows down, obviously if there to small, then it resticts it.
Ive had a go at doing porting before, but unless you have a flow bench, then you really dont know if you are doing better or worse.
Rory
@PSI JOE......thanks bro
@Rory......a dyno is only a reference....these cars are street tuned and then taken to the dyno for fine tuning
Gee
Member +
Golden,
Your right mate. Don't fancy a K24, will miss the topend that the TD04 produces, even thou I know the K24 is probably not far off.
Like I've said a few pages back, just going to enjoy the car for what it is and make small adjusts to try and help with response, such as heat wrapping etc.
Definately want to get on some trackdays, only got a few bits to go before I am ready!
Rory,
Few pages back you will see I offered a better explanation about the torque below 3,000rpm, I could of worded it better.
My car was tuned on the dyno, then fine tuned on the road. Tuning on the dyno is safer and easier that doing an all out road map. Paremters can easily be adjusted to mimic certain road conditions and you have the £000's worth of equiptment to monitor the vehicle while mapping.
My car has best of both worlds mate.
Totally agree about the being beaten. There is always a faster car out there no matter what you do! Just one of those things that pisses you off for a while
Nice spec's Artmull.
Same as mine mate! So if I ever mess up a piston I only need to buy one...cool! LOL
Your right mate. Don't fancy a K24, will miss the topend that the TD04 produces, even thou I know the K24 is probably not far off.
Like I've said a few pages back, just going to enjoy the car for what it is and make small adjusts to try and help with response, such as heat wrapping etc.
Definately want to get on some trackdays, only got a few bits to go before I am ready!
Rory,
Few pages back you will see I offered a better explanation about the torque below 3,000rpm, I could of worded it better.
My car was tuned on the dyno, then fine tuned on the road. Tuning on the dyno is safer and easier that doing an all out road map. Paremters can easily be adjusted to mimic certain road conditions and you have the £000's worth of equiptment to monitor the vehicle while mapping.
My car has best of both worlds mate.
Totally agree about the being beaten. There is always a faster car out there no matter what you do! Just one of those things that pisses you off for a while
Nice spec's Artmull.
Same as mine mate! So if I ever mess up a piston I only need to buy one...cool!
LOL
Rory
Lifer
Ah i see that now.
Anyway, fair play on the dyno being safer and easier, but at the end of the day, do you want numbers or on the road perfomance?
You can not have road going conditions on a dyno.
Having a car stationary with a little fan at the front is not road conditions.
My car was in very safe hands while mapping, with a wideband and det cans also. What else would be required?
Anyway ill leave this here as its going off topic.
Another question to ask is, why do you want more responce? Twistie track work or god forbid on the street?
Anyway, fair play on the dyno being safer and easier, but at the end of the day, do you want numbers or on the road perfomance?
You can not have road going conditions on a dyno.
Having a car stationary with a little fan at the front is not road conditions.
My car was in very safe hands while mapping, with a wideband and det cans also. What else would be required?
Anyway ill leave this here as its going off topic.
Another question to ask is, why do you want more responce? Twistie track work or god forbid on the street?
Rory,
Few pages back you will see I offered a better explanation about the torque below 3,000rpm, I could of worded it better.
My car was tuned on the dyno, then fine tuned on the road. Tuning on the dyno is safer and easier that doing an all out road map. Paremters can easily be adjusted to mimic certain road conditions and you have the £000's worth of equiptment to monitor the vehicle while mapping.
My car has best of both worlds mate.
Totally agree about the being beaten. There is always a faster car out there no matter what you do! Just one of those things that pisses you off for a while
Gee
Member +
Why not have more response? Why do any of us want more power? God forbid for the street?
Like I said, my car had RR and road mapping with DET can's etc like you have mentioned.
We'll agree to disagree..but I know there is one respected tuner of over 20 years mapping experience on this very forum who swears by combination of RR and road mapping.
Anyway, I doubt both of us have enough knowledge or expertise to make an educated argument/discussion on which is 'best', so like ya say, we'll leave it.
I am just going to enjoy it now like you are and concentrate on the interior/exterior. Should keep me occupied for a while.
Like I said, my car had RR and road mapping with DET can's etc like you have mentioned.
We'll agree to disagree..but I know there is one respected tuner of over 20 years mapping experience on this very forum who swears by combination of RR and road mapping.
Anyway, I doubt both of us have enough knowledge or expertise to make an educated argument/discussion on which is 'best', so like ya say, we'll leave it.
I am just going to enjoy it now like you are and concentrate on the interior/exterior. Should keep me occupied for a while.
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Dane_Bristol
Member +
Check out the comparison that i have i have not even had the TD05 14G turbo tunned yet. I have a port and polish on the way and a 4.1kg lightened flywheel and this will help foresure.
As you can see the TD05 almost has the same spooling times and the K24/K26 Hybrid i had on my car. When he TD05 was pushed to 1.4 bar it spooled quicker as you can see on the graph.
I cant wait to get this fully mapped its going to really show that TD05 turbos on the 4e can be fast spooling
Purple is at 1.2 bar
Yellow is at 1.4 bar and did not complete a full rev range pulled off throttle at around 5600 rpm.
Greddy TD05-14G
Now looking at my old K24/K26 Turbo that i had on before you can see that this Greddy Turbo is pretty fast at spool up considering its a TD05. Take a look at the 2 graphs there is not much in it really and when i drove it i felt that on the road they were pretty much the same really but boost kicked in alot harder on the TD05 which is to be expected.
K24/K26 Hybrid
As you can see the TD05 almost has the same spooling times and the K24/K26 Hybrid i had on my car. When he TD05 was pushed to 1.4 bar it spooled quicker as you can see on the graph.
I cant wait to get this fully mapped its going to really show that TD05 turbos on the 4e can be fast spooling
Purple is at 1.2 bar
Yellow is at 1.4 bar and did not complete a full rev range pulled off throttle at around 5600 rpm.
Greddy TD05-14G
Now looking at my old K24/K26 Turbo that i had on before you can see that this Greddy Turbo is pretty fast at spool up considering its a TD05. Take a look at the 2 graphs there is not much in it really and when i drove it i felt that on the road they were pretty much the same really but boost kicked in alot harder on the TD05 which is to be expected.
K24/K26 Hybrid
Gee
Member +
Yeah I know mate.
Only way really was to go 5E, but too costly. I am over it now mate, going to try the little things like heat wrapping etc.
Dane,
Yeah, was going to look into the GReddy turbo's. Same sort of spool, but create more power. Mean a whole new setup thou, so going to enjoy my current setup and sort my interior and exterior to keep me busy.
gv1.3
Admin
nice spec description - from what Ive seen over here the Americans go full balls out with their tuning so well done. I have noticed that over here a lot more people 1) want to do the work 2)Places do the work a lot cheaper than Ireland - Both of these points make a big difference when you are going for an immense setup.
Monkfish
Member +
...and utterly pointless in a FWD hatch. You are not going to see any gains by increasing the power further, except maybe increased lag and more tyre smoke in your mirrors.
My preference would be to go back to a smaller hybrid turbo, get a very responsive 220-230bhp and go for far superior handling and stopping ability over more power. Each to their own though.
Cams will give you more power and torque, and depending on the profile depends on where in the rev range. Mid range torque would be good, but you will still have to wait to be 'on cam' before they make a difference. If lag is an issue for you, heat wrapping the manifold and downpipe, as well as making the whole system as unrestrictive as possible, would be the best bet.