4EFE vs 4EFTE engine block differences for forged engine build.

[Djaniero]

Do you think the vf28 would be enough.

Alright so on the VF setup you would be limited to around 1.5bar. So with in mind you can afford a slight bump in C/R.

I'd say 74.5mm Wossner flat tops and 1.0mm Cometic HG, about 8.5 C/R

Speak to your mapper first, but with ECUs as good as they are now its not an issue.

The low compression Wossner and 1.4mm HG setup has been done for years, people used to run 1.9mm HG and even 2.0mm HG and wonder why a TD04 or 05 setup felt dead low down revs.

Do you think 1.5 bar of boost will be enough to achieve my power goals. I'm not too fussed about numbers but curious to see how what power it would make.

Tuning developments mapped my current td04 setup on emanage ultimate and I haven't had any issues touch wood. However I was thinking to go with SS performance for mapping this time around.

Ah ok. I can only assume that most people just have engines built/or build engines based on tried and tested methods, and drivability is an after thought.

 

[Frankieflowers]

Wossner do various C/R pistons. The dished 8.0 really do leave the lower rev range feeling sluggish. They are designed for high boost applications.

I currently have a 9.2 mm skimmed head with a OEM 1.0 Toyota HG on my fte. The rest is stock. Turbo is a hubrid ct9 with ct12 internals and ergal turbine. Amazing. 20% extra efficiency. No turbo lag. Spool at 2500 rpm. Currently running 1.1 bar with 206 hp. My aim with the new engine is to keep the current turbo and go up to max 1.3/1.5 bar within turbo efficiency.
I’ll be happy to keep the CR stock with a 74.5 bore. I would in the future upgrade to a Garrett GTX2867R and it would completely change the engine behavior. It would be an experiment I probably wouldn’t like but I don’t know about other options that could keep low spool and high power. It’s a compromise.
Which pistons you suggest with a 1.0 Cometic gasket?

 

[Frankieflowers]

The low compression Wossner and 1.4mm HG setup has been done for years, people used to run 1.9mm HG and even 2.0mm HG and wonder why a TD04 or 05 setup felt dead low down revs.

Exactly what I want to avoid. I want an engine that spools around 2500 for a nice ride and good power above with dragster attitude.

Can my head be skimmed again given it was skimmed 10k miles ago?

Get ot checked. It moght be ok. I had it skimmed 20k Kms ago as well bit I want to use the 4efe head as I bought cams from a fte and I want to buy uprated valve springs.

 

[Frankieflowers]

If you are going with the 74.5mm then the C/R is 8.37 using the flat top style. Or C/R is 7.65 with the dished style pistons.

Good information here. So you suggest 74.5 bore with a flat top Wossner piston as the OEM is matched with a 1.0 head gasket? Or as CR is gaining with a 74.5 bore it would be better to choose 1.2 HG?

 

[daniel_g]

Do you think the vf28 would be enough.


Do you think 1.5 bar of boost will be enough to achieve my power goals. I'm not too fussed about numbers but curious to see how what power it would make.

Tuning developments mapped my current td04 setup on emanage ultimate and I haven't had any issues touch wood. However I was thinking to go with SS performance for mapping this time around.

Ah ok. I can only assume that most people just have engines built/or build engines based on tried and tested methods, and drivability is an after thought.

VF28 at 1.5bar should see your power goals for sure.

SSA Performance, who you have mentioned seem to be able to get nearly 300 at the engine from a TD04, that was with the low compression Wossner pistons at 1.4bar, as I did ask him.

Good information here. So you suggest 74.5 bore with a flat top Wossner piston as the OEM is matched with a 1.0 head gasket? Or as CR is gaining with a 74.5 bore it would be better to choose 1.2 HG?

When Wossner are doing their calculations regarding C/R I assume they use the spec of the OEM HG.

The OEM C/R seems very low to me so I've raised it. To keep it nearly the same the 1.2mm might be better.

 

[Djaniero]

VF28 at 1.5bar should see your power goals for sure.

SSA Performance, who you have mentioned seem to be able to get nearly 300 at the engine from a TD04, that was with the low compression Wossner pistons at 1.4bar, as I did ask him.



When Wossner are doing their calculations regarding C/R I assume they use the spec of the OEM HG.

The OEM C/R seems very low to me so I've raised it. To keep it nearly the same the 1.2mm might be better.

SS Performance seem to be getting some really good figures with TD04 setups as you said. Seemed really honest down to earth when I spoke to them also. I'm guessing the just push more boost due to having low comp pistons?

Where would the best place be in the UK to get the wossner flap top pistons?

 

[daniel_g]

SS Performance seem to be getting some really good figures with TD04 setups as you said. Seemed really honest down to earth when I spoke to them also. I'm guessing the just push more boost due to having low comp pistons?

Where would the best place be in the UK to get the wossner flap top pistons?

TD04 at 1.4bar has always been 260 give or take for years. So either they are doing something no one else can or their dyno is a bit generous.

The Wossner flat tops I got from WG Motorparts, they were on ebay, I'm not sure if they are still trading.

You can get them from Wossner Pistons UK.

 

[Djaniero]

That thought did cross my mind about a generous dyno lol. Apparently TD dyno where mine was mapped have the heart breaker dyno. Mine made 233bhp at 1 bar with Td04 on theirs.

 

[daniel_g]

Mine made even less than that haha. 200 but we never pushed it due to standard HG and headbolts at the time.

 

[Djaniero]

Mine made even less than that haha. 200 but we never pushed it due to standard HG and headbolts at the time.

lol I’m old enough to remember when a 200bhp starlet was a big thing. These days 300bhp seems to be the new 200bhp. What power is yours running now?

 

[seanthurston]

There are a few similar threads on here at the monent but it is pretty simple.

The 4E block and crank is the same.

The 4E camshafts, valve springs, conrods and pistons are all thinner / weaker than a FTE. Unless it is an early JDM FE...

Also remember these parts are 30 years old now so take that into account when sourcing FTE camshafts and valve springs.

My old E11 Corolla FE had a different oil pump and timing pulley for a crank sensor so just watch for that aswell.

Advise shopping about for parts, personally I don't use TD anymore so just be careful before you part with your money. Hurley Race Parts should have most of what you need for a build. JE or Wossnor for pistons. Maxspeeding conrods are perfectly fine, most others are the same ones rebranded.

I wouldn't bother getting a full gasket kit either as depending on your build it might not be used.

A 4E sump can be tapped for the oil return without having to find a FTE sump and matching pickup.

I have a Gen 1 4efe - does this have the same camshafts, valve springs, conrods and pistons as the 4EFTE when you say "Unless its a early JDM FE" (which I have). Would this make the GEN 1 JDM FE the best 4E to turbo? If so would any internals of the 4E need to be changed e.g rings or FTE crank. I'm quite novice when it comes to internal engine work so am wondering how straight forward turboing my car would be.

 

[daniel_g]

I have a Gen 1 4efe - does this have the same camshafts, valve springs, conrods and pistons as the 4EFTE when you say "Unless its a early JDM FE" (which I have). Would this make the GEN 1 JDM FE the best 4E to turbo? If so would any internals of the 4E need to be changed e.g rings or FTE crank. I'm quite novice when it comes to internal engine work so am wondering how straight forward turboing my car would be.

The Gen 1 JDM FE does have thicker conrods than the later FE engines but they are not GT conrods as the part number is different.

13201-19075 (also used in 2e Corollas)

GT is 13201-19105.

The pistons are not the same, they have a higher dome for 9.6-1 C/R.

Camshafts and valve springs could be the same but you would ideally need to cross reference part numbers to be sure.

There are two different crankshafts that I've seen in FE / FTE, doesn't make much difference, one is supposed to be lighter.

Ideally you would have it refreshed with new rings, bearings, seals and gaskets before turboing it.

Then its up to the mapping how long it lasts.

I've turbo'd a Gen JDM FE engine about 10 years ago. It was fine until I redlined it in 5th and melted a hole through piston number 2.

 

[Djaniero]

I'm still yet to strip down the 4EFE I bought recently, but some if the Irish lads on the bookface group were having a debate over the crank differences in the 4e a couple of weeks back.
Some said the the cranks were the same, while others said the 4EFTE crank was stamped as 4ET.

I was watching this video earlier of someone stripping down a 4EFE an the crank is actually marked as 4ET, so looks like it is the same as the turbo crank?

(FF to 7mins 37secs)

 

[daniel_g]

It can be a bit all over the place with the cranks. These are the four cranks I have to hand at the moment.

Picture 1.

Left crank stamped 4E, mystery crank - can't remember.

Right crank stamped 4E, bought on ebay, was sold as 1.0L.

Picture 2.

Stamped 4ET, came out of a Glanza.

Picture 3.

Stamped 4ET, N/a 4EFE engine.

 

[Djaniero]

TD04 at 1.4bar has always been 260 give or take for years. So either they are doing something no one else can or their dyno is a bit generous.

The Wossner flat tops I got from WG Motorparts, they were on ebay, I'm not sure if they are still trading.

You can get them from Wossner Pistons UK.

Hey Dan,
The Boys at SS Performance broke 300bhp again with a TD04 Hybrid. Really interesting vid.

 

[Frankieflowers]

Hey Dan,
The Boys at SS Performance broke 300bhp again with a TD04 Hybrid. Really interesting vid.

i missed out a few days. I brought the 4E engine to the machine shop. I will tell you later what we discussI
I am curious to know what these boys at SS did on that forged engine.

 

[Djaniero]

i missed out a few days. I brought the 4E engine to the machine shop. I will tell you later what we discussI
I am curious to know what these boys at SS dis on that forged engine.

What happened at the machine shop @Frankieflowers ?
If you watch the previous video on YT before the video I posted, it shows you what they did to the engine. I was nothing special tbh, just a good solid forged build

 

[Frankieflowers]

Hi guys.

I went to the machine shop. They advised not to use M 10 head studs to avoid trimming the head to make space for the bolts. The other thing they said is that in their opinion Maxsppedingrods our a bad Chinese con rod. They say that they can be safe max 250 HP. I was surprise about this because I read everywhere that they are good products, and so on. I already bought them and I’m not gonna change my mind.

I need someone to confirm that welding AN10 nipples on the FE rocket head will work the same as doing the same job on the FTE rocket head.

 

[SKINY]

There are a good few Drift Masters cars sponsored by MaxSpeeding I noticed the last few seasons
Wonder do they use them tho ?

Richard Bradley Motorsports recently used a MaxSpeeding turbo on a RB engine and he was impressed by it for being Chinese
He's the No1 tuner over here


Guess its up to you now Frankie to put them to the test

 

[Frankieflowers]

There are a good few Drift Masters cars sponsored by MaxSpeeding I noticed the last few seasons
Wonder do they use them tho ?

Richard Bradley Motorsports recently used a MaxSpeeding turbo on a RB engine and he was impressed by it for being Chinese
He's the No1 tuner over here


Guess its up to you now Frankie to put them to the test

I am actually quite positive about them, but I was not expecting the engine shop would tell me they are a cheep choice.