4EFE vs 4EFTE engine block differences for forged engine build.

[Frankieflowers]

The easiest way to do the oil feed is by using the FTE oil filter housing. Some exhaust manifolds won't actually fit unless the oil filter is in this position, as opposed to directly on the block the N/a way, so something to watch out for.

Again regarding the ARP studs, mine were not cut. My machinist must have just drilled down further.

I've seen that video before - that is a good channel to watch for information.

Those Australian guys have a great experience on these engines. They had the chance to make many mistakes and experiments on them.
regarding the oil field there are two options besides the traditional FTE oil feed one is a short filter. The Australian guys use it. The other is a oil filter relocation kit. You connect a 45* feed out and put the oil filter on the chassis maybe underneath the AC lines.
it’s a solution I am considering as my turbo exit runs right in front of the oil filter and I want it in another location. I’ll see about that when the time is right.
Drilling further might weaken the block but it’s an option.
It’s good that se can exchange info while we proceed.
I bought almost everytging I need for the job. I’ll order bearings, studs and bolts in December. This months I’ll get the valves out of the head and take it to machine shop to get washed with the engine block. I’ll bring cams and crank shaft. I’ll not give them head internals as I want to build the head myself.It is very expensive so I prefer to save budget for the Wossner pistons. I’ll obviosly buy the pistons and head gasket after the machine shop will tell me if it is good or if it needs to be shimmed.

 

[Djaniero]

Guys can I ask also.
Are the main caps interchangeable on the 4e engine? I got offered another 4efte block and crank today but with no main caps. However I found a set of used main caps but would the engine have to be line bored to use them in a forged build?

 

[Frankieflowers]

Guys can I ask also.
Are the main caps interchangeable on the 4e engine? I got offered another 4efte block and crank today but with no main caps. However I found a set of used main caps but would the engine have to be line bored to use them in a forged build?

Identical.

 

[gorganl2000]

Guys can I ask also.
Are the main caps interchangeable on the 4e engine? I got offered another 4efte block and crank today but with no main caps. However I found a set of used main caps but would the engine have to be line bored to use them in a forged build?

from what i've been told in the past,,,they are not interchangeable and your block will need to be line bored

 

[Jay]

Yeah, caps should match the block otherwise it requires machine work. Or at least thats how I've always understood it.

 

[daniel_g]

Its something I've thought about aswell, I have a block with no main caps.

Looking at them, they aren't snapped off like a conrod would be. However they are not exactly flat either.

My machinist has previously said you would need to run a line bore through when swaping them out.

It was the billet caps I was interested in, as I also managed to break a standard main cap. Possibly due to the ARP studs and not being line bored afterwards.

Another set of standard main caps might go in straight swap, at the very least you would ideally need the clearances checked at a machine shop.

 

[Frankieflowers]

Its something I've thought about aswell, I have a block with no main caps.

Looking at them, they aren't snapped off like a conrod would be. However they are not exactly flat either.

My machinist has previously said you would need to run a line bore through when swaping them out.

It was the billet caps I was interested in, as I also managed to break a standard main cap. Possibly due to the ARP studs and not being line bored afterwards.

Another set of standard main caps might go in straight swap, at the very least you would ideally need the clearances checked at a machine shop.

If the parts are the same, then technically, you have used engines that need to be checked before swapping elements that are worn. I would bring everything to the machine shop to be checked, and otherwise rectified.
for instance, I bought FTE cam shaft from Japan to go in the FE head. Those will have to be checked with the head tolerances.

 

[Frankieflowers]

from what i've been told in the past,,,they are not interchangeable and your block will need to be line bored

Absolutely. What I said earlier was concerning the compatibility but obviously the parts have to be checked at the machine shop.

 

[Djaniero]

Hi guys,
Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would post here to help others doing the same build.
I picked up my 4efe last weekend - from an NA Starlet - and just wondered what forged pistons I should go for. Initially I was going to get a set of wiseco but read they’re quite noisey and have a flat top design opposed to the wossner pistons which are dished and and more quiet once fitted?
My goal is 280-300bhp. It’s a weekend car that will be used in the street so if I can maintain a similar CR to oem that would be great. I was thinking a cometic HG would be better opposed to oem HG?

 

[Frankieflowers]

Hi guys,
Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would post here to help others doing the same build.
I picked up my 4efe last weekend - from an NA Starlet - and just wondered what forged pistons I should go for. Initially I was going to get a set of wiseco but read they’re quite noisey and have a flat top design opposed to the wossner pistons which are dished and and more quiet once fitted?
My goal is 280-300bhp. It’s a weekend car that will be used in the street so if I can maintain a similar CR to oem that would be great. I was thinking a cometic HG would be better opposed to oem HG?

Wossner pistons and Cometic HD for sure.
Remember that if you bore the cylinders the headgasket will have to be .5 larger.

 

[Djaniero]

Wossner pistons and Cometic HD for sure.
Remember that if you bore the cylinders the headgasket will have to be .5 larger.

Thanks. I’m guessing it would be best to bore the block to use 74.5 pistons also?

 

[Frankieflowers]

Thanks. I’m guessing it would be best to bore the block to use 74.5 pistons also?

I would let the engineer tell if it is necessary. In that case you go 74.5 pistons anf 75 head gasket.

 

[Djaniero]

Ok… I know I need to get everything measured up etc, but what would the CR be roughly with the 74.5 pistons and that head gasket? I would like it to be close to stock CR as possible.

 

[Frankieflowers]

Ok… I know I need to get everything measured up etc, but what would the CR be roughly with the 74.5 pistons and that head gasket? I would like it to be close to stock CR as possible.

So your math. Stroke cannot change. So values will change if you oversize a pistone.

 

[daniel_g]

Ok… I know I need to get everything measured up etc, but what would the CR be roughly with the 74.5 pistons and that head gasket? I would like it to be close to stock CR as possible.

There is no real need to run the 1.2mm headgasket.

If your block and head will be getting skimmed / decked, the 1.0mm is perfectly fine. Cometic do 1.0mm gaskets, I've got one ready for my next build.

The standard C/R is 8.2. Which is low by modern standards. I'd aim a little higher. I have went over 9.0 previously.

Wossner do various C/R pistons. The dished 8.0 really do leave the lower rev range feeling sluggish. They are designed for high boost applications.

8.0 C/R with 74.5mm bore with a 1.2mm HG would obvioulsy be less than standard.

 

[Djaniero]

So your math. Stroke cannot change. So values will change if you oversize a pistone.

View attachment 10643

Thanks

 

[Djaniero]

There is no real need to run the 1.2mm headgasket.

If your block and head will be getting skimmed / decked, the 1.0mm is perfectly fine. Cometic do 1.0mm gaskets, I've got one ready for my next build.

The standard C/R is 8.2. Which is low by modern standards. I'd aim a little higher. I have went over 9.0 previously.

Wossner do various C/R pistons. The dished 8.0 really do leave the lower rev range feeling sluggish. They are designed for high boost applications.

8.0 C/R with 74.5mm bore with a 1.2mm HG would obvioulsy be less than standard.

Thanks Daniel.
I’m planning to use the head from my GT - it was rebuilt around 10k miles ago- with the forged bottom end I will be having built up using the 4efe.
Can my head be skimmed again given it was skimmed 10k miles ago?

What CR wossner pistons would you suggest to achieve a similar to stock engine characteristics. As you said I don’t want an engine that is sluggish in the lower rev range.
Also are there any major differences between the dished and flap top pistons?

 

[daniel_g]

For peace of mind I'd be asking for the head to be checked for flatness by you machinist, or just a couple thou taken off so its perfectly flat. Same with the block.

If you are going with the 74.5mm then the C/R is 8.37 using the flat top style. Or C/R is 7.65 with the dished style pistons.

If going to 74mm the C/R is lower and 75mm is the highest C/R at 8.46.

I went with the 75mm flat tops for my next build as I currently have the 74.5mm dished in my GT.

Its just the top or dome of the piston that is different. -6.2cc for the low C/R piston and -1.37cc for the flat top, in 74.5mm.

Depends what you want from the engine and what your setup will be.

 

[Djaniero]

For peace of mind I'd be asking for the head to be checked for flatness by you machinist, or just a couple thou taken off so its perfectly flat. Same with the block.

If you are going with the 74.5mm then the C/R is 8.37 using the flat top style. Or C/R is 7.65 with the dished style pistons.

If going to 74mm the C/R is lower and 75mm is the highest C/R at 8.46.

I went with the 75mm flat tops for my next build as I currently have the 74.5mm dished in my GT.

Its just the top or dome of the piston that is different. -6.2cc for the low C/R piston and -1.37cc for the flat top, in 74.5mm.

Depends what you want from the engine and what your setup will be.

I’ll make sure to do that with the block and the head.
The car is just a Weeknd warrior, I don’t plan on going on track so just a quick street car.

Setup is nothing major really. Just WEPR TD04 kit with a vf28 turbo. I’m aiming for 280-300bhp.

 

[daniel_g]

Alright so on the VF setup you would be limited to around 1.5bar. So with in mind you can afford a slight bump in C/R.

I'd say 74.5mm Wossner flat tops and 1.0mm Cometic HG, about 8.5 C/R

Speak to your mapper first, but with ECUs as good as they are now its not an issue.

The low compression Wossner and 1.4mm HG setup has been done for years, people used to run 1.9mm HG and even 2.0mm HG and wonder why a TD04 or 05 setup felt dead low down revs.