Clutch issues..need help

C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Hey guys, need a bit of help. Ill start at the beginning.

Car started playing up a while back where I found it hard to get out of gear. After 2-3 days of this, I took it out of gear and it hasn't been able to go back in since. Ill list the things that ive done;

Changed clutch, pressure plate and thrust bearing.
Bled the clutch.
Checked both cylinders for signs of any leaks, both seem to be ok.
Slave cylinder still works, as in moves clutch fork when clutch pedal is dipped. And returns to normal position.

The fluid that was in the system came out clean when I bled it. The pedal feels normal as if theres nothing wrong (obviously no bite point), there was a slight improvement in stiffness after I bled it. The car will go into gear if the car is off, and the car will jerk if I start it in gear, including having the clutch pedal down, so im thinking the gearbox/gears are ok. The only thing I havent checked which I know I should have but with the weather being crap at the mo I havent had chance is the oil level. Am I wrong to assume if the oils low/empty it will still work? Or complete opposite of wont work with no oil, bearing in mind ive got no leaks and no sign of leaks inside the gearbox.

Any help or advice will be much appreciated as im running out of ideas.

Cheers

P.s. I will be checking oil level when the weather clears for a brief moment, just curious to know if it effects this problem.
 
G

gorganl2000

Lifer
assuming all the parts are correct and everything is installed properly

when the car is off and you are selecting gears, can you get someone look at the shafts/levers to see if they are moving freely

sounds like it maybe something inside the gearbox itself
 
C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Thanks for the reply.

Ive checked the gear selectors/linkages by putting it in every gear and checking the position of the levers to see if they moved and all seems well, although I havent had somebody checking while ive changed gears at the same time. I noticed the top lever (closest to the bulkhead) didnt really move position but I will check properly later with somebody. The bottom one seemed to be the one doing all the moving, but im not too sure.
 
T

tiksie

Member +
I know you wrote that it's moving the clutch fork, but is it pushing it in all the way ?

When I had issues with hard gear changes, I went through everything under the sun to figure it out and it was getting harder and harder for selecting gears while the car was on, eventually, this happened:

ibr6UTtHT1eJZU.jpg


My slave was pushing the fork at what started at 100% then gradually decreased to 50%, 40%, 30%.... Snap.. When looking at the fork from where the slave rod pushes it, it looked fine.. However; removing the rubber boot off where the fork comes out of the bellhousing and looking inside, the input release bearing was binding on the input shaft, the fork was still moving but bending at the same time which in turn wasn't pushing the 'throwout bearing' onto the pressure plate as much as it should hence why it got harder and harder to change gears then eventually stopped working.

Even when the fork snapped, I didnt know as the part where the slave rod pushes the fork was still intact from the outside, but as soon as I pulled the rubber boot off, I was greeted with this:

ibs7LBr52pHF5y.jpg


It's an easy 2 minute check to rule out a damaged fork or binding release bearing.

Mind you, that OEM TOYOTA bearing had about 10,000KM's done on it before it seized up.. And the only reason why it seized up was because the previous owner didn't use the proper grease on the shaft!
 
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C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Cheers for the reply mate.

The fork was fine when I changed the clutch but I checked again yesterday and its still ok. Ive changed the gearbox oil now and had somebody check the selectors and they are moving freely as well.

Is there any chance I could have put the clutch disc on backwards and thats stopping it working? Theres nothing left to check, going to try to bleed it again so see if that does anything.
 
T

tiksie

Member +
The symptoms your explaining could make that a possibility that you did install it backwards if the spring is catching the flywheel (hence why it can change when it's off but not when it's on).

I changed a master cylinder on an S13 the other week. There were NO leaks, however, it didn't hold enough pressure to push the slave rod against the fork and would slowly back out after about 3-4 seconds holding the clutch in which made it near impossible to get it in gear whilst the car was turned on and would engage the gear even if the clutch was still pressed in.
 
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weeJohn

weeJohn

Lifer
Sounds like the fork is not pushing the clutch in, it could be bent or not on the release bearing correctly.
 
C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Cheers mate. The fork works as normal, no delay on return or anything. The clutch I took out had a sticker saying 'fw facing' which I assume means 'flywheel facing' but my new one (exedy organic) only had a 'F' which I assumed to face the flywheel, although I can't remember if I did. Is there a certain tension the pressure plate bolts have to be put on?
 
C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Is there a way to tell if the fork is bent, and is it a case of bending it back or replacing for a new one? I thought there was only one way to put the release bearing on the fork due to the clip?
 
T

tiksie

Member +
As mentioned in my previous post, it can look totally normal from the outside.

To see if the fork is bent, remove the rubber dust boot off where the slave rod meets the fork.

Get someone to push on the clutch and look at the end of the fork (the 2 points) to see if it's pushing the bearing.


Yeah, there's only one way to put the bearing on as it connects up to the clip behind it which attaches to the fork..

Do you remember what type of grease you used on the bearing when you put it onto the shaft ?


If you put the clutch on the wrong way, it would've been an issue from the very beginning, not a problem that slowly came about.

Also, did you grease the pivot point where the fork sits ? That spots gets the most stress and usually bends/snaps/cracks from there which you will see in my photo above.
 
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C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Yeah it was the grease that came with the clutch, the little sachet and also wiped grease back off.

I didnt grease the pivot as I didn't know I had to but thanks for letting me know

Ill check later with somebody to see if the fork moves the bearing as the weathers just gotten worse

Many thanks again Tiskie for the replies.
 
T

tiksie

Member +
All good mate, let us know how you go.. It's such a pain in the arse especially if the box has to come out again which it looks like it might.
 
C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Cheers Gorganl2000.

Well i've just looked at the clutch fork and the release bearing looks like its hitting the pressure plate but not much. Also, there is very slight movement when it hits the plate, the casing moves a tiny bit. The teeth (or whatever they're called) on the pressure plate bend inwards but only a fraction, doesnt look enough for it to actually stop the clutch moving.

I'm unsure of what to look for so ive tried to describe it the best I can.
 
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C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Cheers gorganl, thats what im trying to figure out lol

Im going to order a new slave cylinder next week when I get paid as there only cheap and see if that solves it. If it doesnt then ill be taking the box back off to have a good look at the fork and order one if it looks at all mishaped. Ill keep up to date on here as and when I find out what it is just in case in the future anybody is wondering if they have the same issue. Had a good look myself before I started this thread but couldnt find no definate answers but it seems to be a confusing issue for a few people.
 
C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Well heres the update;

Changed the fork and it wasnt that. Havent looked to see if its engaging by taking the rubber off but its due to rain any moment o itll ha e to wait till tomorrow. Looks like its gonna be thw slave cylinder that gets changed next and if that dont work then onto the master cylinder
 
C

Cushion

Fresh Recruit
Well ive just finished changing the slave cylinder and bleeding it, still no joy.

Is there any chance the gear selector or something internal has gone? It wants to go into gear, goes half way then grinds at the last moment

EDIT: when I go to put it in gear, if i hold it in the gear the revs go down, as if im trying to pull off with the handbrake on but its not even in gear. Surely someone has an idea of what this could be as ive seen loads of similar problems. Going to check to see if the release bearing engages and to measure how far the slave moves across
 
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