gorganl2000
Lifer
the tdo4L (oem unmodified subaru turbo) is what we ran on one of the cars...it was very responsive on the 5e
we never tried any other tdo4 type turbo or hybrids
we never tried any other tdo4 type turbo or hybrids
CT9 vs TD12 vs TD04 - Pros & Cons
- Thread starter Texx
- Start date
gorganl2000
Lifer
however, i do recall reading on some of the subaru forums that some tdo4L hybrids were laggier when compared to the stock td04L unit.
there were quite a few hybrids by various companies though...and that was a whiel ago i read those treads...so i cant say which were reportedly laggier
i recall some dyno charts as well showing the different results and response variations
there were quite a few hybrids by various companies though...and that was a whiel ago i read those treads...so i cant say which were reportedly laggier
i recall some dyno charts as well showing the different results and response variations
ramses974
Member +
thanx for your information ...
i think it is because the 19T wheel must be heavier than the td004 stock
19T is the biggest TD04 turbo with a TD04L exhaust housing.
It can flow more power due to the way bigger compressor wheel and this results in less response.
ramses974
Member +
in this case i think the td04L19 must be 'living' at more than 1bar ...
ramses974
Member +
Sorry i do not know how to read this 0.....if someone can helps meI think so.
If you can read a map, I can't
gorganl2000
Lifer
some of the hybrid turbos did not seem to generate much more power than the stock tdo4L...and lost a bit of response
turbos are a special thing...they are a complete unit and need to be treated as such.....just putting on a bigger compressor wheel may not always give the expected results....having a restricted exhaust housing, small compressor housing, clipped exhaust blades, etc. all have an effect on a turbo
however, sometimes good research and maybe sometimes plain luck can get a hybrid that performs great.
turbos are a special thing...they are a complete unit and need to be treated as such.....just putting on a bigger compressor wheel may not always give the expected results....having a restricted exhaust housing, small compressor housing, clipped exhaust blades, etc. all have an effect on a turbo
however, sometimes good research and maybe sometimes plain luck can get a hybrid that performs great.
^^ Yup even at 1.4 bar of boost pressure, this turbo is still just within the most efficient island on that chart, but you got to remeber this chart does not take into account heat exchange so really you can run alot more boost, ofcourse not exceeding the turbo's capabilities, with an intercooler working 70% efficient and still run a 'happy motor'.
Best for response, nothing beats a CT9! It creates a broad, very usable powerband and if you require more grunt higher in the rev range you can opt to play with a higher compression on the engine with maybe a mild upgrade camshaft. I ran 1.3 bar (18 - 19psi) of boost through a hybrid CT9 and it was an awesome, very responsive drive all the way through the rev range.
The only downfall with the CT9 was back pressure. The 18 - 19 psi was to compensate for the pressure loss from the plumbing of the intercooler hardware, but this resulted in producing a slight increase in exhaust turbine pressure, raising the temp of the air going into the intercooler, but still manageable to remain consistant and reliable. If you want an all out response setup there is alot you can dial in to make the CT9 setup a efficient package. If you look at the exhaust valves in the 4E head, they are way smaller then the intake valves and if replaced/machined to fit bigger exhaust valves together with porting or altogether replacing the exhaust housing for a slightly bigger A/R housing on the CT9, i think this will further reduce backpressure which i beleive is the main constraint.
I also appreciate the bigger turbos's like the TD04 or similar for a very fast street setup or for competion purpose as it makes more hp then a CT9 and hp is what gets you down the track quickly, so of course you want to build a setup for maximun hp. What this results in is that raising the peak torque to make more top end hp means less torque down low, but i guess thats ok for an EP because it is a lightweight car, but more bottom end torque an hp may just overpower the available traction like my ct9 setup did.
Best for response, nothing beats a CT9! It creates a broad, very usable powerband and if you require more grunt higher in the rev range you can opt to play with a higher compression on the engine with maybe a mild upgrade camshaft. I ran 1.3 bar (18 - 19psi) of boost through a hybrid CT9 and it was an awesome, very responsive drive all the way through the rev range.
The only downfall with the CT9 was back pressure. The 18 - 19 psi was to compensate for the pressure loss from the plumbing of the intercooler hardware, but this resulted in producing a slight increase in exhaust turbine pressure, raising the temp of the air going into the intercooler, but still manageable to remain consistant and reliable. If you want an all out response setup there is alot you can dial in to make the CT9 setup a efficient package. If you look at the exhaust valves in the 4E head, they are way smaller then the intake valves and if replaced/machined to fit bigger exhaust valves together with porting or altogether replacing the exhaust housing for a slightly bigger A/R housing on the CT9, i think this will further reduce backpressure which i beleive is the main constraint.
I also appreciate the bigger turbos's like the TD04 or similar for a very fast street setup or for competion purpose as it makes more hp then a CT9 and hp is what gets you down the track quickly, so of course you want to build a setup for maximun hp. What this results in is that raising the peak torque to make more top end hp means less torque down low, but i guess thats ok for an EP because it is a lightweight car, but more bottom end torque an hp may just overpower the available traction like my ct9 setup did.
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gorganl2000
Lifer
i wonder if there is enough room/metal to properly port out the ct9 exhaust housing to reduce back pressure and improve flow for those sticking with the ct9
and i mean the inside of the turbine housing, not only the wastegate port
and i mean the inside of the turbine housing, not only the wastegate port
sx_turbo
Lifer
there is but chances of the exhaust housing cracking are increased greatly,
CT12 exhaust side flows way better than any CT9 exhaust side.
CT12 turbo with a compressor wheel in the region of a TF035 I would say will be a great turbo
dac69er
Super Moderator
CT12 exhaust side flows way better than any CT9 exhaust side.
CT12 turbo with a compressor wheel in the region of a TF035 I would say will be a great turbo
im going with a tf035
thought i would try something a little different
ramses974
Member +
on a 4e or a5e?im going with a tf035
im going with a tf035
Go for it
just not to sure how good a TF035 exhaust housing flows?gorganl2000
Lifer
i posted a link earlier in this tread with a tf035 ...check it out
see page 6...it may give you something to think about
see page 6...it may give you something to think about
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dac69er
Super Moderator
stock 4e
ramses974
Member +
it seems good ...i saw that the tf035 is from a subaru 2.0...