Beaker
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WTF is peng. Sorry if I am being stupid, but Ive never heard it!
Drugs, what the government doesnt want you to know
- Thread starter gv1.3
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WTF is peng. Sorry if I am being stupid, but Ive never heard it!
GTti
Member +
I've just realized, so you've sampled everything yet you think CREATINE has been the cause of you and your friend's problems? Thread.
Hilarious! Mr "Personal Trainer"!
Your simplicity in understanding how this would work is the fundamental issue.
For a start I believe the massive majority would agree to keep these other drugs illegal, so it's fair to say you're in a minority.
- There is nothing that suggests if legalised the drugs won't become more of a problem than alcohol.
- Current research is limited because the drugs are illegal, simply not enough is known.
- You've not considered the effects of a concoction of drugs.
- There would be champaigns against legalisation of previously illegal drugs.
- It would cost billions to impliment an infrastructure where by these drugs are manufactured, tested, quality assured.
- The above equates to massive taxes
- High taxes will increase the popularity of obtaining the drug illegally
- There will still be crime and corruption involved with illegal dealers
- More cost and strain on the police to enforce legality of public use
- More cost and strain to the NHS because of the increase intake and accessibility of multiple substances
- The same cost to police and other government departments such as SOCA to crack down on illegal trade
- Lack of money being invested in the private sector because people are feeding their drug related habbits.
- Increased government costs of advertising risks of these drugs
- Peoples perception of these drugs won't change, there will be confrontation.
- There are hundreds of points I haven't thought about.
I think your observations are pretty poor:
- Yes very much so.
- I'm sure it would be the same if they went out to drink mushroom soup.
- As with alcohol.
See above points.
They can't test for drugs other than alcohol, they only need a suspicion (smell), it's designed to be a deterrent advert.
Very sensible.
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gv1.3
Admin
Im not about to go in to my personal experience or list out drugs I have tried but if I talk about something in the terms I have then I am not talking from reading out of a book or talking about the scare tactics used in schools etc to scare kids away from touching any substances rather than giving them facts - I speak from experience.
Why you are "astounded" by my comments I cant understand. Mushrooms were legal in many countries up until recently and have been used for thousands of years, long before alcohol. As far as I am concerned you are simply someone who believes what they are fed by the government fuelled propaganda machine. You claim to be open minded but throughout this thread you have consistently shown that all of your information is from government funded studies, the same government who silenced an expert in the field of drug research recently.
I am done debating with you on this because the mere fact that you dont see a problem with alcohol which directly kills up to 8000 people a year is astounding to me. It is a hypercritical standpoint in my opinion. You can take everything the government supplies you with at face value but I choose to question.
gv1.3
Admin
its comments like this that show exactly how much you know bout the subject Luke.
gv1.3
Admin
now my friend... your assumptions about my experiences are just that - assumptions. You have also shown your total ignorance on the matter by your comments above.
"Mushys" as you refer to them are not all the same. There are a huge variety and they all cause different experiences. Some make you talk more without any visuals,some make you feel good, some have visuals, some can be as powerful as acid. You referring to mushrooms as one thing that give you one experience shows you should take some of your own advice and not comment on something you have just demonstrated you lack or very limited experience of.
Also allow me educate you a little more. In Amsterdam when you purchase these from stores (while they were legal) they supply you with an information sheet on each type of mushroom and what effects they will produce and their potency. Further more they supply you info on what sort of drinks to drink or foods to eat to neutralise the effects of the mushrooms should you want to stop the experience.
Now.... what were you saying about "mushys"?
As for me thinking everyone that takes drugs are happy as larry... Well my friend you do not know where I was brought up and what I have seen in my lifetime and so I think you should again stop assuming things. Ive seen people die from prolonged heroin use and people addicted to pretty much every drug you can think of, including prescription drugs and alcohol.
My constant theme throughout this thread has been why dont we treat all drugs in order of their harmful effects - alcohol being an absolute killer. And why do we assume if drugs were legalised people would be running out to use them.... when at the moment you can already get anything you want very easily so the people who want to use them are already doing so. Now... tell me how that is saying "everyone who uses drugs is happy as larry" read the whole thread and then make your comments or you will look like a fool.
bigdoods
Member +
speaking of 'mushys'...i went out the back field there last week and picked about 30 of them.there were horses in the field at the time and im lead to believe that it is season for mushrooms in Ireland now? has any one any experience of picking them and consuming them for one of these halucinating trips?-advice needed
back to topic, i totally think that cannibis should be legal and thats it. If other drugs were legal the government would not be able to police them as so many people would consume them. for example we as human keep pushing limits,its natural,if the government made the drugs legal, people would just keep pushing the limits on what they could do ex. driving under the influence
On the other hand, if Ireland made all drugs legal Irelands economy would go through the roof.tourism would boom. and before somebody says people wouldnt work etc, thats bull because those who are going to take drugs already have probably done so and still working now. drugs no matter legal or illegal are still available to us no matter what...
back to topic, i totally think that cannibis should be legal and thats it. If other drugs were legal the government would not be able to police them as so many people would consume them. for example we as human keep pushing limits,its natural,if the government made the drugs legal, people would just keep pushing the limits on what they could do ex. driving under the influence
On the other hand, if Ireland made all drugs legal Irelands economy would go through the roof.tourism would boom. and before somebody says people wouldnt work etc, thats bull because those who are going to take drugs already have probably done so and still working now. drugs no matter legal or illegal are still available to us no matter what...
GT_Irl
Member +
eh, ya they can. Blood tests and smear tests back at the station, its not just an officers visual estimation!:haha:
As for the creatine I NEVER SAID I HAD ANY PROBLEMS as I have never taken creatine. My friend who had taken craetine and had the problems is a professional rugby player who regularily gets drug tested. He has never taken anything too my knowledge.
As for what else you have said, ya I agree with most points but I still fell there just has too be a way
edit: No need for personal insults. We are all adults. I dont see the relevance of bringinga nother thread into this thread that has got nothing too do with the topic in question. Wait a second...arent moderators suppsed too set a good example for the rest of us? hmm.....
Ive been too amsterdam twice and it works. The whole thing works problem free. Theres your example if you need one.
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GT_Irl
Member +
speaking of 'mushys'...i went out the back field there last week and picked about 30 of them.there were horses in the field at the time and im lead to believe that it is season for mushrooms in Ireland now? has any one any experience of picking them and consuming them for one of these halucinating trips?-advice needed
...
Be careful you have picked the rigth ones! If you have, dry them out. Put them in a tin on your radiator. When they are nice and dry you can crush them up into a dust and put them in your tea or just gobble them down!
There is a field in crosshaven called the magic field (apt!). Myself and a friend went down there and picked some at the end of last summer (When they grow) and I had my share on my own and they were dam good
GTti
Member +
I'm refering to the police here, they do not have test for drug driving other than alcohol, they have to suspect in order to take you back to a station. The police officer I was living with was informed that this is by smell, I asked her when we were sitting together watching the advert. The advert is a preventative method.
And yes, drugs can be detected in hair samples for very long periods of time. Infact even stress (cortisol) and medicinal drugs can be detected, you'll even have to declare drugs such as antibiotics.
You keep telling everyone to stop making assumptions but you are consistantly doing it yourself. Infact this whole thread is about YOUR assumption. Amazing.
I have never once in this thread suggested alcohol isn't a problem. So for the last time.
It's such a hypocritical statement that you think I'm fed by "government propaganda", yet you believe in a conspiracy that the government have made an attempt to silence someone. I have chosen to review all aspects and think for myself on this topic. I've constructed many points against the idea of many any more drugs being legal, yet you can't answer one of them.
:haha:
You're right! I should trust a peice of paper provided to me by a business whom is just about to sell me drugs.
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gv1.3
Admin
where have I made assumptions? I have asked questions and opened up the idea of legalising drugs and asked for feedback. You have just pasted government funded reports.
As for conspiracy theory ... that comment is full of shit in my opinin... its not a conspiracy if there is a man out of a job and two of his well respected colleagues have followed.
As for me believing a piece of paper given to me by a store. It is based in scientific fact and experience. And is well documented. I think its pretty pathetic you find it so funny. You are on a crusade to demonise all drugs other than those you personally take... you are a hypocrite. All of your posts point to that fact. You dont want to admit it but you dont think there is a problem having a drink yet you think something like a joint is going to cause psychosis. A victim of propaganda - the government love people like you, you dont even think them blowing public money on themselves warrants much media attention.
You even say there is no test for drug driving... you havent got a clue. Go google some more reports there Luke
As for conspiracy theory ... that comment is full of shit in my opinin... its not a conspiracy if there is a man out of a job and two of his well respected colleagues have followed.
As for me believing a piece of paper given to me by a store. It is based in scientific fact and experience. And is well documented. I think its pretty pathetic you find it so funny. You are on a crusade to demonise all drugs other than those you personally take... you are a hypocrite. All of your posts point to that fact. You dont want to admit it but you dont think there is a problem having a drink yet you think something like a joint is going to cause psychosis. A victim of propaganda - the government love people like you, you dont even think them blowing public money on themselves warrants much media attention.
You even say there is no test for drug driving... you havent got a clue. Go google some more reports there Luke
Phil
Super Moderator
its a fact, the theory as to why is still being debated.
i dont think legalising drugs is a good idea, BUT i do think that it would make alot of organised crime null and void.
totally seperate issue but worth taking into consideration.
alot of druggies or occassional users, are MALE.
male by nature tend to go after what they are not allowed.
legalise the drug it isnt as taboo as previous = less interest less money to be made on the blackmarket
the people who are determined to use it still will, they may go insane or ultimately kill themselves or others its just how things are, they live happily and die in 40-60 years as life takes its course. who knows.
if your choosing between drugs, which is gives a better/bigger/safer high?
maybe its time to step back and change what your doing.
Dyl and luke you both have points and good points at that, but once you present them so tightly wrote and so square against eachothers previous post it leaves little chance for other to make there own mind up, they are just reading an arguement for the sake of it.
Phil
GTti
Member +
The title of this thead is an assumption made by you, there is no reasoning with you once you're set in your ways Dylan. I recognise we both have stubborn tendancies and you know fully well neither of us will change our opinion on this particular subject.
When I was younger I had a similar view to yourself, when I gained real experience my views changed, which you claim to have, but I am somewhat skeptical of that given your ideas and opinions.
Once again I haven't suggested otherwise, drink is a problem, tobacco is a problem, they share a value in the fact they are both legal drugs. In the long term if other drugs are legalised they will become just as much of a problem, the current real life scenario and acceptance of alcohol and tobacco tells us that.
I also didn't say that expenses didn't warrant media attention. You seem to be twisting and manipulating things, I think this is because you realise you have no argument for, but are simply continuing to do so because you enjoy the confrontation.
There is no roadside testing for drugs other than alcohol as far as I'm aware. I know for a fact in Leicestershire this is the case.
I'm glad the majority don't agree with you, hence why these drugs are illegally classified and laws are in place.
The simple fact is you are the minority with this, that is where you shall remain
When I was younger I had a similar view to yourself, when I gained real experience my views changed, which you claim to have, but I am somewhat skeptical of that given your ideas and opinions.
Once again I haven't suggested otherwise, drink is a problem, tobacco is a problem, they share a value in the fact they are both legal drugs. In the long term if other drugs are legalised they will become just as much of a problem, the current real life scenario and acceptance of alcohol and tobacco tells us that.
I also didn't say that expenses didn't warrant media attention. You seem to be twisting and manipulating things, I think this is because you realise you have no argument for, but are simply continuing to do so because you enjoy the confrontation.
There is no roadside testing for drugs other than alcohol as far as I'm aware. I know for a fact in Leicestershire this is the case.
I'm glad the majority don't agree with you, hence why these drugs are illegally classified and laws are in place.
The simple fact is you are the minority with this, that is where you shall remain
gv1.3
Admin
good points Phil.
I am going to stop arguing now because my intention for this thread was never an argument it was to open up debate. I feel I have been made look like I am for legalising drugs when that is not what I am interested in.
I merely question why some drugs, which are scientifically proven to be worse than other drugs are not legal or are more socially acceptable and why the government wants to silence experts who want to give the truth to people.
Some very valid points were made to me by Sam for example but then some confusing points were made. When I asked why it was socially acceptable to drink but not smoke weed I was hit with a comment about taking two drugs at once... weed and tobacco... when I asked if people going for a beer and smoking was not taking two drugs at once this was overlooked... this takes me back to my initial query... why are some drugs more socially acceptable than others and why does the government want to keep it that way?
The obvious reason is that alcohol and tobacco yield massive amounts of revenue for the government.... but is that the only reason?
I am going to stop arguing now because my intention for this thread was never an argument it was to open up debate. I feel I have been made look like I am for legalising drugs when that is not what I am interested in.
I merely question why some drugs, which are scientifically proven to be worse than other drugs are not legal or are more socially acceptable and why the government wants to silence experts who want to give the truth to people.
Some very valid points were made to me by Sam for example but then some confusing points were made. When I asked why it was socially acceptable to drink but not smoke weed I was hit with a comment about taking two drugs at once... weed and tobacco... when I asked if people going for a beer and smoking was not taking two drugs at once this was overlooked... this takes me back to my initial query... why are some drugs more socially acceptable than others and why does the government want to keep it that way?
The obvious reason is that alcohol and tobacco yield massive amounts of revenue for the government.... but is that the only reason?
bigdoods
Member +
Be careful you have picked the rigth ones! If you have, dry them out. Put them in a tin on your radiator. When they are nice and dry you can crush them up into a dust and put them in your tea or just gobble them down!
There is a field in crosshaven called the magic field (apt!). Myself and a friend went down there and picked some at the end of last summer (When they grow) and I had my share on my own and they were dam good
cool,sounds good. thats what im doing in the morning so ha.iv heard many things about these as in they grow and die in a day and the best time to pick them is in the morning? also is it true that when they dry out they release the chemical that makes you haluscinate? iv tried them twice now and havnt tripped once
gv1.3
Admin
When I was younger I had a similar view to yourself, when I gained real experience my views changed, which you claim to have, but I am somewhat skeptical of that given your ideas and opinions.
Please dont patronize me like that. I have plenty of real experience, more than you will ever know. I have used much of it in this thread whilst you have quoted online reports and people you know. You sound like you have zero real world experience to me. My advice would be to go out and live a bit and dont believe everything the government or people down the pub tell you - that is a sheep.
I also didn't say that expenses didn't warrant media attention. You seem to be twisting and manipulating things, I think this is because you realise you have no argument for, but are simply continuing to do so because you enjoy the confrontation.
Nope you are the one twisting... if you are going to quote me take the time to do it correctly. I said you said it didnt require MUCH media attention not that it didnt require media attention in general - be more careful with your quotes and dont use them loosely to try prove a point
There is no roadside testing for drugs other than alcohol as far as I'm aware. I know for a fact in Leicestershire this is the case.
there is the field sobriety test which is used to determine initial suspicion - get your facts straight
The simple fact is you are the minority with this, that is where you shall remain
You sound like you are fighting a little crusade here. This thread was not about being right or wrong. It asked questions and got mostly interesting and varied responses. The only person with a closed mind here is you which puts you in the minority. Your inability to question authority or look outside the box for potential answers to problems is unfortunate but thankfully there are some who will venture in to that realm which allows us to progress and not remain stagnant.
Its pretty obvious for your patronising tone that you are now just looking to argue Luke. I was enjoying the free discussion in this thread until you shit all over it with your copy and paste links and stonewalled ideas but you can have it all to yourself now as I got what I intended from it, some interesting responses and ideas both for and against.
My position is still open. I am neither for nor against I just think the topic is interesting and deserves to be spoken about.
Congratulations on ruining an open discussion much like the people you trust in government who have done the same.
The end. (from me anyway I am sure you will have some other point to prove in a thread that was not about proving points)
.
GT_Irl
Member +
cool,sounds good. thats what im doing in the morning so ha.iv heard many things about these as in they grow and die in a day and the best time to pick them is in the morning? also is it true that when they dry out they release the chemical that makes you haluscinate? iv tried them twice now and havnt tripped once
Yup, they come up in the morning so ya best time. Its said a a dewwy morning after a full moon is ideal. That never happened me in the past when I dried out mushys
If you worried about that then try and have em soon after you pick them:haha: Probably in a drink or something would best, sure as you know yourself they taste rank!!!edit: Luke, I would like a response too my above post. I dont understand why you have brought a completely separate unrelated thread into this one and insulted me personally, I would like an explanation. I dont do negative rep like!
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gv1.3
Admin
put them between two bbq pringles chew very quickly and swallow - so I heard...
HutchGlanzaV
Member +
All things in moderation. Some of the points put across in this thread seem to suggest that if drugs were legalised then over night we'd all become raging smackheads, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be the case, I don't see any reason why casual users wouldn't remain casual users and current addicts wouldn't remain addicts. I don't think the current legality of drugs is much of a deterant, if people want to use drugs they will.
People have mentioned alcohols historic place in social acceptance, but consider this, if alcohol was a new drug do you think it would be legal? I doubt it, it would probably be placed right up there with the likes of heroin. Just because "its always been like that" doesn't make it any safer than illegal drugs.
I know all drugs are subjective but this is my personal experience. If I'm feeling down or depressed and drink I only get worse. If I feel down or depressed and smoke I cheer up. I don't see the harm in that.
People have mentioned alcohols historic place in social acceptance, but consider this, if alcohol was a new drug do you think it would be legal? I doubt it, it would probably be placed right up there with the likes of heroin. Just because "its always been like that" doesn't make it any safer than illegal drugs.
I know all drugs are subjective but this is my personal experience. If I'm feeling down or depressed and drink I only get worse. If I feel down or depressed and smoke I cheer up. I don't see the harm in that.
or boil them in water and drink the juice..hardcore
or put them in soup,theres lots of ways..going to go picking tommorow cause of all this chat
GTti
Member +
Very, very low Dylan.
"I have plenty of real experience, more than you will ever know"
I'm suprised by you, you appear to have made this personal, but I'm telling you now that you have failed to make anyone aware that you have experience regarding this topic (Wether you do or not is irrelevant). You know a small amount about a very small segment of my life, another assumption of yours, don't ever pretend you know my life experiences.
You like stamping authority, you often give rash responses on the forum to other members in an array of threads. Don't think you can try and make me feel small, if you ever spoke to me like that in person, in my current frame of mind I would make you feel like a grain of sand.
Stonewalled, patronizing, maybe Dylan, I'm self analytical, maybe you should take a step back and review how you come across - Trust me it's not always great.
"No, you are"
Don't act like a spoilt child in suggesting that I've ruined a thread, just because it hasn't gone the way you wanted it to. Anyone is free to post in here as they wish.
Until your last post I never really felt this was personal, but in reading that you have made my blood boil, I am furious.
I've told you before to remove my 'Moderator' status, my views at the moment are a little stronger, so please do so. I don't want to be associated with you here right now. Other than that I don't have the time to continue doing it anyone anyway, especially in the near future.
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