Drugs, what the government doesnt want you to know
- Thread starter gv1.3
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GTti
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1. I think judging all government employees as immoral is ridiculous and incorrect, the majority of MP's were within their rights to claim some of the expenses they have. I never said I disagreed with the initial media attention; I disagreed with the duration of it and the further waste of time and money it accumulated.
2. I said people don't die from drinking one pint of beer, where as there is a great possibility with illegal Class A drugs. It can take years of alcohol abuse but only a few seconds to OD with a Class A. Are you trying to say less people would die through excessive consumption of Class A drugs over alcohol if they were legal?
3. You have read about 'this' research but not seen it. Yet you appear have chosen to ignore every other report and study linking cannabis use to mental health issues, there are masses of them.
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
http://www.nhs.uk/LiveWell/mentalhealth/Pages/Cannabispsychoticbreakdown.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/News/2007/July/Pages/Cannabislinkedtopsychoticillness.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/News/2007/August/Pages/Smokingcannabisworsethantobacco.aspx
Who wants to make their mind up?
4. These actual words about his dismissal haven’t been in the news for a couple of days.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8337185.stm
Where is there ANYTHING that says this man was sacked because the results weren't favoured? This man was sacked because he spoke out in an attempt to deface the decision that was being made, which was not his job. The idea that he was sacked because of the results is entirely your own conclusion.
Have to dash.
2. I said people don't die from drinking one pint of beer, where as there is a great possibility with illegal Class A drugs. It can take years of alcohol abuse but only a few seconds to OD with a Class A. Are you trying to say less people would die through excessive consumption of Class A drugs over alcohol if they were legal?
3. You have read about 'this' research but not seen it. Yet you appear have chosen to ignore every other report and study linking cannabis use to mental health issues, there are masses of them.
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
http://www.nhs.uk/LiveWell/mentalhealth/Pages/Cannabispsychoticbreakdown.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/News/2007/July/Pages/Cannabislinkedtopsychoticillness.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/News/2007/August/Pages/Smokingcannabisworsethantobacco.aspx
Who wants to make their mind up?
4. These actual words about his dismissal haven’t been in the news for a couple of days.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8337185.stm
Where is there ANYTHING that says this man was sacked because the results weren't favoured? This man was sacked because he spoke out in an attempt to deface the decision that was being made, which was not his job. The idea that he was sacked because of the results is entirely your own conclusion.
Have to dash.
Sheldon
Malta Area Rep.
:haha:
mr garison is a lier!!!
gv1.3
Admin
GTti
Member +
I still find it irrelevant to this topic, and I believe these people are the best people to run the country. That’s probably why they are doing so.
At the end of the day this is an ultimate question that neither me or you or anyone else can really answer. But I personally would not want to find out.
Me too. I had the same upbringing as my bother, the only difference was his long term abuse of cannabis. I’ve seen his condition deteriorate over 10 years, and it’s very difficult and a huge strain on family and loved ones as you know.
Sure he may have had the susceptibility of developing psychosis, but there is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that he took his life as a result of this drug. Politicians agree with me, NHS agree with me, my family agree with me, Mental Health charities agree with me, many scientists agree there is a link. The research is not there to even think about legalising this drug.
I will never believe otherwise.
I’m not trying to discredit anything you’ve said. The simple fact is Dylan that nothing you’ve stated is any more credible than what I’ve stated. You have based your argument around something that has not even been suggested by the press “silencing”. This is entirely opinion based and I think the people making these decisions are in a far better situation to lead our country than anyone else who objects against them.
GT_Irl
Member +
As Mike Skinner so aptly put it, the money spent on tidying up after drunken louts pales in significnace compared too peoples college fees etc. (think of the costs linked too alcohol ingestion too a city for a typical night out: property damage, a and e costs, police time dealing with the usuall drunken messes and their b/s, cost too clean up after etc etc etc..also, alcohol related fatalities: liver failure, incidences of rape/assault etc where alcohol is said too be the key factor).
IMO alcohol is far worse then most drugs, in particular cannabis. Cannabis should be legalised too a point IMO (maybe like Dam). Certainly there are links between overuse of cannabis and pshchosis, paranoia etc etc. So possibly controls could be put on the strenght of weed available and the amount people could posess/buy.
Dont flame me. Just my 2c
Bang on the money there kid. Self control, like all things really. My mates are the same. The heavy drinkers are the heavy smokers.
A couple of summers ago through a legal loophole magic mushrooms were legally sold in Ireland. That was the BEST summer of my life..lol! Dylans right. We should be allowed make these choices for ourselves! (within reason of course)
You can still buy salvia over the counter here in Cork. IMO it is WAY WORSE than normal weed....I briefly thought I was in a toybox...
It will be illegal very soon too...hence why im stocking up!
IMO alcohol is far worse then most drugs, in particular cannabis. Cannabis should be legalised too a point IMO (maybe like Dam). Certainly there are links between overuse of cannabis and pshchosis, paranoia etc etc. So possibly controls could be put on the strenght of weed available and the amount people could posess/buy.
Dont flame me. Just my 2c
I used to smoke cannabis every now and then, didn't lead to anything else.
I don't think legalising it will change the amount of people who get heavily into cannabis use.
A few summers ago magic mushrooms through a loophole were leaglly sold in Ireland (the loophole was soon closed). That was one of the best summers of my life! Dylans right, people should be allowed make that choice for themselves. Some things are still legal, but will be soon gone i'd imagine, salvia for instance can still be bought legally in Cork. From my personal experience it is WAY WORSE then regular weed... I briefly thought I was in a toybox...
It's a certain type of person that uses cannabis heavily I know a good few and they drink shitloads too.
I don't think it should be legalised straight away, but the people who use cannabis don't need to steal or commit crime like heroin addicts do to fund their past time.
I do think that it should be used medicinally more, as a lot of pain relieving drugs etc have a LOT worse side affects and by doing this it would give a more controlled study into how it affects people.
Bang on the money there kid. Self control, like all things really. My mates are the same. The heavy drinkers are the heavy smokers.
A couple of summers ago through a legal loophole magic mushrooms were legally sold in Ireland. That was the BEST summer of my life..lol! Dylans right. We should be allowed make these choices for ourselves! (within reason of course)
You can still buy salvia over the counter here in Cork. IMO it is WAY WORSE than normal weed....I briefly thought I was in a toybox...
It will be illegal very soon too...hence why im stocking up!
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sacodetoro
Lifer
GTti - Don't be so nieve about our Government.
The expences scandal needed to be of the scale it was, it wasn't about the sums of money involved it was about showing the politicians as the people they really are.
Don't be so foolish that they are there for the Country as that is utter balls, half the army will tell you they aren't in it as a public service, they are there because it's a job.
I've dealt with a few MP's and MLA's and they are not all the sharp end of the stick a few are absolute idiots I would sack in an instant.
Best people to run the country my arse, the people who would be the best at running the country are in the private sector.
Stress? Don't try and tell me their job is more stressful in comparison to the majority of people working in the private sector.
Diet? Have you read the commons menu? Luxurious food for pitance yet they feed the army with crap food they make them pay more for than what an MP has to.
Social aspects? Half of them don't even go to parliament, they have open surgeries a few hours a week and the rest of the time they get driven about to go to functions and meetings. Compare that to someone doing a 6month tour in Afgahnistan/someone working on the rigs/someone working 2 jobs and on nightshift. Need I go on?
I don't think drugs should be legalised as it still gived the problem of people commiting crime to feed their habit, people trying to get around the taxes that would be imposed and lesser quality drugs will still be readily available but instead of being cut with something safe they'll be cut with something cheap and harmful.
However properly controlled I see no reason why we couldn't have strictly controlled legal cannabis.
It's piece of piss to grow a plant in your bedroom anyway and the seeds are legal.
The expences scandal needed to be of the scale it was, it wasn't about the sums of money involved it was about showing the politicians as the people they really are.
Don't be so foolish that they are there for the Country as that is utter balls, half the army will tell you they aren't in it as a public service, they are there because it's a job.
I've dealt with a few MP's and MLA's and they are not all the sharp end of the stick a few are absolute idiots I would sack in an instant.
Best people to run the country my arse, the people who would be the best at running the country are in the private sector.
Stress? Don't try and tell me their job is more stressful in comparison to the majority of people working in the private sector.
Diet? Have you read the commons menu? Luxurious food for pitance yet they feed the army with crap food they make them pay more for than what an MP has to.
Social aspects? Half of them don't even go to parliament, they have open surgeries a few hours a week and the rest of the time they get driven about to go to functions and meetings. Compare that to someone doing a 6month tour in Afgahnistan/someone working on the rigs/someone working 2 jobs and on nightshift. Need I go on?
I don't think drugs should be legalised as it still gived the problem of people commiting crime to feed their habit, people trying to get around the taxes that would be imposed and lesser quality drugs will still be readily available but instead of being cut with something safe they'll be cut with something cheap and harmful.
However properly controlled I see no reason why we couldn't have strictly controlled legal cannabis.
It's piece of piss to grow a plant in your bedroom anyway and the seeds are legal.
gv1.3
Admin
Thats your opinion Luke and the purpose of the thread was to get opinions.
Ive outwardly said in this thread that perhaps my view on this is very simplistic but I still cant see how alcohol and other drugs are legal and the government earn money from them when they are causing so much death yet some other drugs are illegal and the scientific community believe they are less hazardous.
You may believe that your brothers mental health issues were brought on by drug use and I dont dispute that but saying you were both brought up the same way is not really a factor in my experience. I wont go in to too much detail but I have a brother and sisters, we were all raised the same way and we all turned out extremely different because people are individuals, I cant point the finger at one substance and say thats the cause. Some people are more pre-disposed to mental health problems than others.
I think this particular episode is far from over as it has set a dangerous precedent in my opinion.
And this is out and out speculation on my part but I cant help but feel that if the results of this particular bout of research had come back with something that said "all illegal drugs are terribly bad for you" the government would be announcing the results from the rooftops.
GT_Irl - The mushroom banning is a prime example of what I am talking about. One person jumped in to a river and drowned after taking them and suddenly they are a demon substance that must be banned at all costs! Time and time again we hear of people falling or having accidents when drunk, again I dont see the difference.
Half the time I think the government make these laws up to be seen to be doing something and they concentrate on easy targets. I dont know if you remember that lad being stabbed with a sword last year. Within a couple of weeks they had pushed through emergency legislation to ban swords?!? It got no push back from the public because no one cared and it got the minister lots of media time making him look like a hero! All of this at a time when gun crime is going mental, but gun crime would take time, money and effort to tackle.
Ive outwardly said in this thread that perhaps my view on this is very simplistic but I still cant see how alcohol and other drugs are legal and the government earn money from them when they are causing so much death yet some other drugs are illegal and the scientific community believe they are less hazardous.
You may believe that your brothers mental health issues were brought on by drug use and I dont dispute that but saying you were both brought up the same way is not really a factor in my experience. I wont go in to too much detail but I have a brother and sisters, we were all raised the same way and we all turned out extremely different because people are individuals, I cant point the finger at one substance and say thats the cause. Some people are more pre-disposed to mental health problems than others.
I think this particular episode is far from over as it has set a dangerous precedent in my opinion.
And this is out and out speculation on my part but I cant help but feel that if the results of this particular bout of research had come back with something that said "all illegal drugs are terribly bad for you" the government would be announcing the results from the rooftops.
GT_Irl - The mushroom banning is a prime example of what I am talking about. One person jumped in to a river and drowned after taking them and suddenly they are a demon substance that must be banned at all costs! Time and time again we hear of people falling or having accidents when drunk, again I dont see the difference.
Half the time I think the government make these laws up to be seen to be doing something and they concentrate on easy targets. I dont know if you remember that lad being stabbed with a sword last year. Within a couple of weeks they had pushed through emergency legislation to ban swords?!? It got no push back from the public because no one cared and it got the minister lots of media time making him look like a hero! All of this at a time when gun crime is going mental, but gun crime would take time, money and effort to tackle.
GT_Irl
Member +
Wow...excellent post, particularily that last paragraph. Gun crime has really gotten out of hand these past few years and your dead right, no-one seems too be tackling it, possibly because they think they'll fail and then not get re-elected as they will have been seen too fail by the populace...I wonder?!!
As for the lad who jumped in the river, what the papers failed to mention is that he had also been drinking heavily the day of his death. I have taken mushrooms of all strengths, shapes and sizes and believe me they do not make you jump in a river..lol!
Sheldon
Malta Area Rep.
GT_Irl
Member +
but they really fuck you up
:haha: that they do! Your perceptions go too hell...colours are a real mess, and hysterical laughter ensues..great fun allround, but heres the key: With mushys you maybe trpping off your game but you are still always in control as in you know whats going on (unlike lsd for example).
GTti
Member +
I'm not going to be so nieve and believe that you know anything about government employees. You can raise as many judgemental comments as you wish, but it's getting tiresome listening to yet more e-MP's suggestions. Please stop pretending!
If you know anything about nutrition then luxurious food does not usually equate to healthy foods. Food provided to the Army is meant to provide the nutrition the body needs, it is based purely around the essential intake. It's not just a case of cooking up luxurious food in the battlefield, it has to be compact and transportable. People join the Army by choice, most of whom from documentaries insist they are there because they want to fight for our country and the Queen.
It's called patriotism. If people are so disgusted about the way this government runs the country why not leave? You can almost guarantee you won't be as well looked after or as safe in the majority of other nations.
Anyway, at least we agree that other drugs should remain illegal.
I was at the pub earlier, it I don't know why I failed to mention it before, but alcohol in moderation is good for maintaing a healthy heart. A moderate intake of alcohol has been shown to increase HDL cholesterol and reduce bad cholesterol that can cause heart disease.
"The authors suggest that this relationship may be responsible for the French paradox (the relatively low rate of heart disease in France despite a high dietary fat intake). LDL cholesterol concentrations are partly determined by dietary habits, especially the intake of fat. The effects of high dietary fat intake in the French population may be offset by that population's high intake of alcohol."
Those who work and support mentally ill patients know that cannabis progresses and deteriorates individuals with a mental health condition. This is not something I "believe" this is through my first hand experience, the words of the doctors and charity workers who were there to help my family and my brother.
I've spent time in the mental wards of a hospital and seeing a large proportion of people there because of illegal drug abuse - my brother told me their stories. People diagnosed with forms of mental illness participated at my brother's funeral, it's not a coincidence that they shared one thing in common.
There is a massive lack of understanding about the effects of cannabis, especially with the young whilst the brain is still developing. I have been contacted and given information by/to journalists who've had the intention to make others aware.
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GTti
Member +
Have a read.
I can't see that I have anything further to say on this thread. I see myself as an open minded person, I do listen to what people have to say and I enjoy listening to other peoples experience in life matters. However I have to stand by my instincts and own experience on this one, I only hope some people out there choose to listen.
I can't see that I have anything further to say on this thread. I see myself as an open minded person, I do listen to what people have to say and I enjoy listening to other peoples experience in life matters. However I have to stand by my instincts and own experience on this one, I only hope some people out there choose to listen.
GT_Irl
Member +
I do agree with you mate, I have seen paranoia attacks amongst some of my friends but these are by FAR the heavyiest smokers. I personally believe, like alcohol, in moderation cannabis is fine. However, you are certainly right there are definite links between cannabis and mental health problems, however once again the same could be said of alochol abuse.
Its important too talk about the negatives and positives of such things and your input into this thread has been really good.
I dont pretend too even know what you have been through, it must have been awful
What I can say is that I have a very close family member who has struggled with mental health problems from a very early age and by god is it tough so in that respect I do understand.
GTti
Member +
Here is some more information, nice to see Rethink (Whom I've dealt with) are in agreement
Today - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4583648.stm
Other links (And older):
A story like mine:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4365065.stm
Downgrade:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4363075.stm
"Mental health charities welcomed the review, but charity DrugScope warned against the danger of the move being motivated by political, and not scientific, factors"
Rethink calls for cannabis study:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4217609.stm
Risks:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4052963.stm
Today - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4583648.stm
Other links (And older):
A story like mine:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4365065.stm
Downgrade:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4363075.stm
"Mental health charities welcomed the review, but charity DrugScope warned against the danger of the move being motivated by political, and not scientific, factors"
Rethink calls for cannabis study:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4217609.stm
Risks:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4052963.stm
gv1.3
Admin
sorry Luke your view on this is totally one sided. Now you claim alcohol is good for you... tell that to the countless families devastated by alcoholism. Most things in moderation are fine for you including alcohol but all you are doing is promoting the positives of one substance and focusing on the negatives of another. That is not a balanced viewpoint.
Many people will have a beer or glass of wine and enjoy it. Many people will smoke a joint and enjoy it. Some people will become alcoholics. Some people will become dependent on illegal drugs. You can spend time in psychiatric hospitals and see people suffering the effects of over indulgence in drugs and you can go to a rehab clinic or any hospital and see countless people dying fro alcoholism.
To see the positives in one and only the negatives in the other does not portray you as an open minded person.
EDIT: why dont you go online and grab some research and stats on alcoholism Luke? here is the first one I found on google - 8724 alcohol related deaths in the UK in 2007 alone. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=1091
Many people will have a beer or glass of wine and enjoy it. Many people will smoke a joint and enjoy it. Some people will become alcoholics. Some people will become dependent on illegal drugs. You can spend time in psychiatric hospitals and see people suffering the effects of over indulgence in drugs and you can go to a rehab clinic or any hospital and see countless people dying fro alcoholism.
To see the positives in one and only the negatives in the other does not portray you as an open minded person.
EDIT: why dont you go online and grab some research and stats on alcoholism Luke? here is the first one I found on google - 8724 alcohol related deaths in the UK in 2007 alone. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=1091
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