:haha:
1. I think judging all government employees as immoral is ridiculous and incorrect, the majority of MP's were within their rights to claim some of the expenses they have. I never said I disagreed with the initial media attention; I disagreed with the duration of it and the further waste of time and money it accumulated.
no point continuing this with you Luke as you are still putting words in my mouth. Read back through what I said and find where I said all government employees are immoral, I think you will find I never said that.
2. I said people don't die from drinking one pint of beer, where as there is a great possibility with illegal Class A drugs. It can take years of alcohol abuse but only a few seconds to OD with a Class A. Are you trying to say less people would die through excessive consumption of Class A drugs over alcohol if they were legal?
yes that is exactly what I am trying to say. Being that class A drugs can be readily got today and the people who want to take them take them already and the death rate from alcohol is huge compared to class A drugs what makes you think everyone would suddenly start using class A drugs if they were legal? Also the quality of the substance would be a known and so death from OD or ingestion of other contaminants would be decreased as people would know what they were getting. As you appear to be a lover of research show me some that says if class A drugs were legalised more people would die from excessive consumption than would die from alcohol.
3. You have read about 'this' research but not seen it. Yet you appear have chosen to ignore every other report and study linking cannabis use to mental health issues, there are masses of them.
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
http://www.nhs.uk/LiveWell/mentalhealth/Pages/Cannabispsychoticbreakdown.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/News/2007/July/Pages/Cannabislinkedtopsychoticillness.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/News/2007/August/Pages/Smokingcannabisworsethantobacco.aspx
Who wants to make their mind up?
okay so you are trusting NHS sources for your information? The government are ignoring research results they have commissioned which did not have the results they wanted and you are trusting these same people to give you impartial advice?
As for mental health issues resulting from drug abuse, Ive seen it first hand and dont need reports to tell me it exists but I believe that compared to alcohol consumption the risks appear to be very small. I know a lot more alcoholics than people with mental health issues brought on by drugs. So if we are so concerned about health issues arising from drugs why are we not focusing on the drugs that are doing the most damage to society?
4. These actual words about his dismissal haven’t been in the news for a couple of days.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8337185.stm
Where is there ANYTHING that says this man was sacked because the results weren't favoured? This man was sacked because he spoke out in an attempt to deface the decision that was being made, which was not his job. The idea that he was sacked because of the results is entirely your own conclusion.
Have to dash.
Oh Luke, still trying to discredit what I am saying and still failing. The words are not identical as it was addressed directly to Prof Nutt but its basically saying what was officially released today.
Again you may choose to believe that the sacking had nothing to do with the findings, I personally dont, but my point is that the government want to silence these results. If they didnt then they would have no issue with him talking about them would they?
Also as for it being entirely my own conclusion, again this is you making an assumption, I disagree. The professor in question has stated that he believes it to be true and 2 of his respected colleagues have also resigned in support of him.
See article dated 31 Oct 2009
SKY NEWS
"In his letter to the former drugs tsar, the Home Secretary accused the professor of going beyond his remit as an evidence-based scientist and accused him of "lobbying for a change in Government policy".
"It is important that the Government's messages on drugs are clear and as an adviser you do nothing to undermine the public understanding of them," Mr Johnson wrote.
"As my lead adviser on drugs harms I am afraid the manner in which you have acted runs contrary to your responsibilities."
no point continuing this with you Luke as you are still putting words in my mouth. Read back through what I said and find where I said all government employees are immoral, I think you will find I never said that.
yes that is exactly what I am trying to say. Being that class A drugs can be readily got today and the people who want to take them take them already and the death rate from alcohol is huge compared to class A drugs what makes you think everyone would suddenly start using class A drugs if they were legal? Also the quality of the substance would be a known and so death from OD or ingestion of other contaminants would be decreased as people would know what they were getting. As you appear to be a lover of research show me some that says if class A drugs were legalised more people would die from excessive consumption than would die from alcohol.
okay so you are trusting NHS sources for your information? The government are ignoring research results they have commissioned which did not have the results they wanted and you are trusting these same people to give you impartial advice?
As for mental health issues resulting from drug abuse, Ive seen it first hand and dont need reports to tell me it exists but I believe that compared to alcohol consumption the risks appear to be very small. I know a lot more alcoholics than people with mental health issues brought on by drugs. So if we are so concerned about health issues arising from drugs why are we not focusing on the drugs that are doing the most damage to society?
Oh Luke, still trying to discredit what I am saying and still failing. The words are not identical as it was addressed directly to Prof Nutt but its basically saying what was officially released today.
Again you may choose to believe that the sacking had nothing to do with the findings, I personally dont, but my point is that the government want to silence these results. If they didnt then they would have no issue with him talking about them would they?
Also as for it being entirely my own conclusion, again this is you making an assumption, I disagree. The professor in question has stated that he believes it to be true and 2 of his respected colleagues have also resigned in support of him.
I used to smoke cannabis every now and then, didn't lead to anything else.
I don't think legalising it will change the amount of people who get heavily into cannabis use.
A few summers ago magic mushrooms through a loophole were leaglly sold in Ireland (the loophole was soon closed). That was one of the best summers of my life! Dylans right, people should be allowed make that choice for themselves. Some things are still legal, but will be soon gone i'd imagine, salvia for instance can still be bought legally in Cork. From my personal experience it is WAY WORSE then regular weed... I briefly thought I was in a toybox...
It's a certain type of person that uses cannabis heavily I know a good few and they drink shitloads too.
I don't think it should be legalised straight away, but the people who use cannabis don't need to steal or commit crime like heroin addicts do to fund their past time.
I do think that it should be used medicinally more, as a lot of pain relieving drugs etc have a LOT worse side affects and by doing this it would give a more controlled study into how it affects people.
x2!However properly controlled I see no reason why we couldn't have strictly controlled legal cannabis.
Half the time I think the government make these laws up to be seen to be doing something and they concentrate on easy targets. I dont know if you remember that lad being stabbed with a sword last year. Within a couple of weeks they had pushed through emergency legislation to ban swords?!? It got no push back from the public because no one cared and it got the minister lots of media time making him look like a hero! All of this at a time when gun crime is going mental, but gun crime would take time, money and effort to tackle.
Wow...excellent post, particularily that last paragraph. Gun crime has really gotten out of hand these past few years and your dead right, no-one seems too be tackling it, possibly because they think they'll fail and then not get re-elected as they will have been seen too fail by the populace...I wonder?!!
As for the lad who jumped in the river, what the papers failed to mention is that he had also been drinking heavily the day of his death. I have taken mushrooms of all strengths, shapes and sizes and believe me they do not make you jump in a river..lol!
but they really fuck you up
GTti - Don't be so nieve about our Government.
The expences scandal needed to be of the scale it was, it wasn't about the sums of money involved it was about showing the politicians as the people they really are.
Don't be so foolish that they are there for the Country as that is utter balls, half the army will tell you they aren't in it as a public service, they are there because it's a job.
I've dealt with a few MP's and MLA's and they are not all the sharp end of the stick a few are absolute idiots I would sack in an instant.
Best people to run the country my arse, the people who would be the best at running the country are in the private sector.
Stress? Don't try and tell me their job is more stressful in comparison to the majority of people working in the private sector.
Diet? Have you read the commons menu? Luxurious food for pitance yet they feed the army with crap food they make them pay more for than what an MP has to.
Social aspects? Half of them don't even go to parliament, they have open surgeries a few hours a week and the rest of the time they get driven about to go to functions and meetings. Compare that to someone doing a 6month tour in Afgahnistan/someone working on the rigs/someone working 2 jobs and on nightshift. Need I go on?
I don't think drugs should be legalised as it still gived the problem of people commiting crime to feed their habit, people trying to get around the taxes that would be imposed and lesser quality drugs will still be readily available but instead of being cut with something safe they'll be cut with something cheap and harmful.
However properly controlled I see no reason why we couldn't have strictly controlled legal cannabis.
It's piece of piss to grow a plant in your bedroom anyway and the seeds are legal.
Thats your opinion Luke and the purpose of the thread was to get opinions.
Ive outwardly said in this thread that perhaps my view on this is very simplistic but I still cant see how alcohol and other drugs are legal and the government earn money from them when they are causing so much death yet some other drugs are illegal and the scientific community believe they are less hazardous.
You may believe that your brothers mental health issues were brought on by drug use and I dont dispute that but saying you were both brought up the same way is not really a factor in my experience. I wont go in to too much detail but I have a brother and sisters, we were all raised the same way and we all turned out extremely different because people are individuals, I cant point the finger at one substance and say thats the cause. Some people are more pre-disposed to mental health problems than others.
I think this particular episode is far from over as it has set a dangerous precedent in my opinion.
And this is out and out speculation on my part but I cant help but feel that if the results of this particular bout of research had come back with something that said "all illegal drugs are terribly bad for you" the government would be announcing the results from the rooftops.
GT_Irl - The mushroom banning is a prime example of what I am talking about. One person jumped in to a river and drowned after taking them and suddenly they are a demon substance that must be banned at all costs! Time and time again we hear of people falling or having accidents when drunk, again I dont see the difference.
Half the time I think the government make these laws up to be seen to be doing something and they concentrate on easy targets. I dont know if you remember that lad being stabbed with a sword last year. Within a couple of weeks they had pushed through emergency legislation to ban swords?!? It got no push back from the public because no one cared and it got the minister lots of media time making him look like a hero! All of this at a time when gun crime is going mental, but gun crime would take time, money and effort to tackle.
Have a read.
I can't see that I have anything further to say on this thread. I see myself as an open minded person, I do listen to what people have to say and I enjoy listening to other peoples experience in life matters. However I have to stand by my instincts and own experience on this one, I only hope some people out there choose to listen.
But mental health campaigners do have concerns.
The charity Rethink says a review of research published in The Lancet last year found frequent cannabis use increased the risk of psychotic illnesses like schizophrenia by 40%.
Studies have also suggested that using the drug can trigger psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations and feeling out of touch with surroundings in some people.
However it is unclear whether these symptoms are short-lived, or if they persist even when use of the drug is stopped.
Predisposition
Mental health charity Mind has reported psychiatrists have seen an increase in numbers of people being hospitalised with psychotic episodes linked to cannabis use since the drug was downgraded.
Many experts believe that use of the drug can worsen symptoms in someone who already has schizophrenia, or manic depression associated with psychotic symptoms.
There is also a body of evidence beginning to emerge that long-term use of cannabis in early teenage years puts an individual most at risk.
But sceptics say those who are affected have already demonstrated a predisposition to problems.
A British Medical Journal study in 2004 concluded that while cannabis use moderately increased the risk of psychotic symptoms in young people, it had a much stronger effect in those who had already had mental health-related problems.
In November 2005, Glasgow and Edinburgh University researchers found damage to a certain brain gene was the key to determining risk of developing serious mental health problems.
The finding prompted experts to say mental health problems were "too complex" to be put down to one factor, either environmental or genetic.