Perfect Handeling *
- Thread starter Franza1
- Start date
cameroon95
Member +
Personally I think this would work much better if a cause and solution section was added.
i.e im experiancing very bad liftoff oversteer
the solution is etc...
i.e im experiancing very bad liftoff oversteer
the solution is etc...
robboglanzav
Member +
dont lift off, or try left foot brakin but this is hard to do, so practice on a car park or on track
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
This is a little bit out of context but thought it would be useful for some on here, I wrote this on the UKSC afte someone stated Starlets will never be able to handle well, rubbish! :beer:
"You don't need to alter the rear axle at all, the saying that Starlets don't handle is a complete myth. Yes the rear axle isn't the worlds greatest setup but it's not bad by any means. With careful attention to detail and concentrating on the right parts it will be up there with the best of them I can assure you. Most add brace after brace but neglect the most important aspect, bushes. This is why we have a full line of poly bushes coming out to go along with our poly engine mounts.
There are so many variables to discuss with handling it's untrue, the most basic of parts like ball joints/track rods if left untouched will seriously effect the disposition of the car. Couple that with 80,000 mile + worn bushes like lower arm front and rears, rear suspension arm, panhard, ARB D and link bushes, engine mounts, top mounts etc etc then it's no doubt they don't handle well. No point in adding any aftermarket chassis bits until the bushes are done. Adding a rear ARB is also essential as they don't have one as standard will make the world of difference. Wheel diameter, offset and tire choice also play another part. Anyone who has been in any of our demo Starlets will paint a very different picture.
Another fundamental aspect is roll cages, the Starlet floor plan is pretty thin, hell it wasn't designed as a track car it was a city runner. Adding even a simple bolt in will make the world of difference. The more points the better, a weld in takes things to a whole new prospective, start adding in things like front strut triangulation bars and you will be laughing all the way around the track. Couple that with the fact that they are FWD we will always have more confidence than 4WD or RWD boys as they are a lot less predictable and harder to drive on the limit, all we have to deal with is under steer and the odd cock of the leg
It's like when people compare a Starlet with a new bread van type R civic it's just not a fair comparison, they were made 10 years later. Compare the Civic of the time with the Starlet and it's pretty even Stephens. That is the case with the GT, with the Glanza civics's admitingly had moved on by then and rather than changing the design Toyota kept it to save a pretty penny which we all would have done when there is billions involved. If you look at the original civic when the GT was relased, eveident from old BM tests, the GT walks over it in a straigh line and on the bends so it really shows you they were pretty good for the time.
Add with that the countless amount of aftermarket parts available you can turn you Starlet from a shopping trolley to a track monster over night. Admintingly in stock guise it won't set any records but it wasn't meant too it was meant to be a city car. With the right application, thought and time it will be a true handling monster.
Just my 2c And Nath great progress by the way love seeing them in the flesh! Hope you get that wheel sorted as well buddy I'll keep an eye on this sorry for spamming the thread but leave the rear axle as it is!"
Tobs
"You don't need to alter the rear axle at all, the saying that Starlets don't handle is a complete myth. Yes the rear axle isn't the worlds greatest setup but it's not bad by any means. With careful attention to detail and concentrating on the right parts it will be up there with the best of them I can assure you. Most add brace after brace but neglect the most important aspect, bushes. This is why we have a full line of poly bushes coming out to go along with our poly engine mounts.
There are so many variables to discuss with handling it's untrue, the most basic of parts like ball joints/track rods if left untouched will seriously effect the disposition of the car. Couple that with 80,000 mile + worn bushes like lower arm front and rears, rear suspension arm, panhard, ARB D and link bushes, engine mounts, top mounts etc etc then it's no doubt they don't handle well. No point in adding any aftermarket chassis bits until the bushes are done. Adding a rear ARB is also essential as they don't have one as standard will make the world of difference. Wheel diameter, offset and tire choice also play another part. Anyone who has been in any of our demo Starlets will paint a very different picture.
Another fundamental aspect is roll cages, the Starlet floor plan is pretty thin, hell it wasn't designed as a track car it was a city runner. Adding even a simple bolt in will make the world of difference. The more points the better, a weld in takes things to a whole new prospective, start adding in things like front strut triangulation bars and you will be laughing all the way around the track. Couple that with the fact that they are FWD we will always have more confidence than 4WD or RWD boys as they are a lot less predictable and harder to drive on the limit, all we have to deal with is under steer and the odd cock of the leg
It's like when people compare a Starlet with a new bread van type R civic it's just not a fair comparison, they were made 10 years later. Compare the Civic of the time with the Starlet and it's pretty even Stephens. That is the case with the GT, with the Glanza civics's admitingly had moved on by then and rather than changing the design Toyota kept it to save a pretty penny which we all would have done when there is billions involved. If you look at the original civic when the GT was relased, eveident from old BM tests, the GT walks over it in a straigh line and on the bends so it really shows you they were pretty good for the time.
Add with that the countless amount of aftermarket parts available you can turn you Starlet from a shopping trolley to a track monster over night. Admintingly in stock guise it won't set any records but it wasn't meant too it was meant to be a city car. With the right application, thought and time it will be a true handling monster.
Just my 2c And Nath great progress by the way love seeing them in the flesh! Hope you get that wheel sorted as well buddy I'll keep an eye on this sorry for spamming the thread but leave the rear axle as it is!"
Tobs
durmz
Member +
ive never tried it, but also ive been told by a mate he uses the handbrake slightly, obviously not enough to lock em, but keeps the foot in and helps prevent lift off oversteer...this work?
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
I wouldn't personally use the handbrake for anything other than doing a 180 degree spin on a rally track tbh, what problem are you having?
T
T
glanzamike89
Fresh Recruit
yh thats the same as me buddy i can chuck it in to corners at stupid speed in the dry but as soon as i lift off or brake mid corner in the wet i get really bad oversteer. i dont no if its to do with the tires i have a feeling it is. has any one else solved this problem?
cheers guys
cheers guys
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
Are you guys running panhard rods, are they adjusted correctly? If your not running lower than stock ride height then this doesn't apply to you. This will be more evident in the wet simply as their is less grip meaning axle fluctuations will be more evident.
What about rear braces and how are your bushes looking? Also what tires are you running, what pressures etc?
T
What about rear braces and how are your bushes looking? Also what tires are you running, what pressures etc?
T
durmz
Member +
yer thas kinda what i thought, mainly coz if u over judge it ure gna grab it too hard and be looking the other way lol, its oversteer in the wet, ive got the standard lsd, so it never really understeers, in the dry its great, but in the wet if i enter a roundabout too quickly the back just doesnt grip, think it might be coz my back tyres arent as good as the fronts
durmz
Member +
ive got trd shocks and springs, believe there 40mm lower than normal, got the standard rear 3 point strut brace, front trd arb only, got toyo t1r's on the front, yokohoma summits on the back, the ones with the cross hatched tread pattern, bit shite, i dno what psi im running, what psi would you recomend?
Toby@ToyTuning.com
Banned - DO NOT BUY FROM TOYTUNING
That is your first problem there, you need to match the tires front and rear really unless you know for sure that the mix is working. I would say that was the first thing you need to do, get some T1R's on the rear.
Are you running a adustable panhard rod? This is essential and will be very evident specially in the wet as the axle will be mis-aligned if it's lowered without one that is setup properly.
Tobs
sx_turbo
Lifer
as toby says the rear axle isnt that bad,
the mk 3+4 fiesta's and the ka's all use solid beam axles, and they have always been the best handling cars in there class,
also all these people with lift off oversteer and complaing about it............ i suggest you learn how to drive.
you are supposed to set the car up ready for the corner, keep a steady speed around the corner, and when the apex of the corner is reached put the power down.
the mk 3+4 fiesta's and the ka's all use solid beam axles, and they have always been the best handling cars in there class,
also all these people with lift off oversteer and complaing about it............ i suggest you learn how to drive.
you are supposed to set the car up ready for the corner, keep a steady speed around the corner, and when the apex of the corner is reached put the power down.
munday
Member +
THANK YOU!!!!! Reppp
durmz
Member +
i know how to drive mate, how u suppose to hold a steady speed when someone pulls out on you???? just crash into em no biggie. and i wasnt complaining about it, i can ask for advice. thanks for that toby, ile look to be getting getting a panhard rod i think and a rear anti roll bar
durmz
Member +
ile look into gyear f1s around next i think, and get my hands on that panhard rod, ta mate