gorganl2000
Lifer
yeah toby....engines are just big air pumps...as said earlier...the bigger and better the pump...the more power
advantages of the 5e over the 4e?
- Thread starter monka
- Start date
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gaz_turbo1
Guest
yeah got mine set up on the 5e marks too
, getting set up again v.soon with new3" downpipe-exhaust and on 4e marks and 2.5" intercooler pipe, and more than 1 bar of boost,
, getting set up again v.soon with new3" downpipe-exhaust and on 4e marks and 2.5" intercooler pipe, and more than 1 bar of boost,gorganl2000
Lifer
i'll be honest and say....if u are running a FULL standalone...i dont know if it makes a difference whether u have it on the "4E" mark or the "5E" mark....as i assume u can tune accordingly on either one using a FULL standalone
however, i will ask a few questions to some people and see what they say...who run full standalones and 5efte set up.....time for some reality
however, i will ask a few questions to some people and see what they say...who run full standalones and 5efte set up.....time for some reality
StarletRick
Fresh Recruit
not really.
the cam timing is nothing to do with the ecu. its a physical thing, that also affects the ignition as that is ran from the cams.
the cam timing is nothing to do with the ecu. its a physical thing, that also affects the ignition as that is ran from the cams.
goldenvtr
Member +
i retract my last statment after actualy reading the thread lol, my stock ecu seems to be fine for ignition timming on the 5e. as previously stated im only using small injectors and basic fueling computer, but rest assured once i have some bigger injectors and my emanage mapped it should and hopfully will be be completly diffrent again. there a few figuers of td04's at 1.4bar from enthusiasts like Gee and Steve.
will be intresting to see my power and torque curves accross the WHOLE rev range when comparing the same boost
will be intresting to see my power and torque curves accross the WHOLE rev range when comparing the same boost
StarletRick
Fresh Recruit
itll be fine on the 5e marks dan, they are there for the overlaps of the different motors. NA motors run with slight valve overlap. turbo motors tent not to. thats all it is. itll work fine on both, its just down to preference. i run mine on the 4e markings and make good power at 1.2 bar.
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gaz_turbo1
Guest
dan wht HG you got, and pistons
StarletRick
Fresh Recruit
id leave it as is mate. if yours is tuned like that, and it works, dont fanny about with it. lol.
gorganl2000
Lifer
Cheers rick, would it relate to any reliability issues or power diffrences? as if i do have the change my headgasket i can adjust it whilst im there
try the "4E" cam timing set up.....i have spoken to a a few guys...and they tend to prefer this particular cam timing over the "5E" marking
seems like the engine is smoother on the "4E" marking
u could always switch back to the "5E" if u dont like it
gorganl2000
Lifer
no prob goldenvtr....stick to your preference then.....as it will be good for a comparison later on
AzE_B
Member +
i just fill theres somethink stoping me geting bhp so im going to try changing mine and then get it mapped again so ill let you know if it makes any diffrence
goldenvtr
Member +
my 5E is just been fully fully rebuild.
been swap next week with cruise TD05 kit.
for specs check my project topic.
running in on stock 5E ECU with piggyback fuel and ignition controller as well as new AFR switch point bij zeitronix.
after running in it will be getting a new brain from KMS full package (ignition pack, high-speed lambda ect).
helpfully i can give a good figure after the brain transplant.
it will be tuned on the road and after that it will get on the dyno to complete the tune.
been swap next week with cruise TD05 kit.
for specs check my project topic.
running in on stock 5E ECU with piggyback fuel and ignition controller as well as new AFR switch point bij zeitronix.
after running in it will be getting a new brain from KMS full package (ignition pack, high-speed lambda ect).
helpfully i can give a good figure after the brain transplant.
it will be tuned on the road and after that it will get on the dyno to complete the tune.
hardcoreep
Member +
5E = More power and more torque.
It makes more power based on displacement ie: more air into the engine for combustion so more out. It make more torque based on the increase in stroke which is further magnified by the FE head design.
As for revv-ability. I have seen none suffer. Its not an engine I'd keep at redline like a Honda motor, but I've seen no difference in high rpm performance between both engines. They both take the 8000rpm limit fine.
I've run the engine on both cam marks. YOU DONT WANT more overlap on a turbo engine. Keeping the exhaust/intake events as short as possible keeps the intake charge from mixing with the exhaust charge. Basic turbo-motor theory. That's why turbo cams usually have the same duration. The peculiarities of the FE head design also make this a bad thing to have carrying me to my next point.
The dyno doesn't lie, but you need comparision. When I dynoed my car stock it had 104whp and 112lb/ft. When I first swapped to the 5E I could feel the difference, but i knew something was wrong because I had a direct comparison with the 4E. On the dyno my instincts were confirmed. The 5E was making 1hp less, but had a massive extra 12lb/ft.
This was followed by a technical introduction into EGTs (exhaust gas temperature). EGTs don't only affect a/f ratio, it affects the biggest power adder, timing. My glowing red turbine housing confirmed that.
This is what I found, running a small turbo on a 5E will increase low/mid-range power, but as you get higher up in the rpms the EGTs will increase reducing whatever timing advance you would have. This gives the illusion that the car is running out of steam up top as the car limits timing to stop itself from blowing up.
A td04 is a very small turbo to run on a 5E, because the FE design means its cylinder pressures and exhaust flows are way more than its displacement hints at. Toyota and Yamaha designed it this way for NA purposes.
People here run big turbochargers on their 5Es to keep EGTs low. You can get away with as big as td06 with little change in driveability. This is due to the fixed nature of the engine's powerband due to the FE design.
It makes more power based on displacement ie: more air into the engine for combustion so more out. It make more torque based on the increase in stroke which is further magnified by the FE head design.
As for revv-ability. I have seen none suffer. Its not an engine I'd keep at redline like a Honda motor, but I've seen no difference in high rpm performance between both engines. They both take the 8000rpm limit fine.
I've run the engine on both cam marks. YOU DONT WANT more overlap on a turbo engine. Keeping the exhaust/intake events as short as possible keeps the intake charge from mixing with the exhaust charge. Basic turbo-motor theory. That's why turbo cams usually have the same duration. The peculiarities of the FE head design also make this a bad thing to have carrying me to my next point.
The dyno doesn't lie, but you need comparision. When I dynoed my car stock it had 104whp and 112lb/ft. When I first swapped to the 5E I could feel the difference, but i knew something was wrong because I had a direct comparison with the 4E. On the dyno my instincts were confirmed. The 5E was making 1hp less, but had a massive extra 12lb/ft.
This was followed by a technical introduction into EGTs (exhaust gas temperature). EGTs don't only affect a/f ratio, it affects the biggest power adder, timing. My glowing red turbine housing confirmed that.
This is what I found, running a small turbo on a 5E will increase low/mid-range power, but as you get higher up in the rpms the EGTs will increase reducing whatever timing advance you would have. This gives the illusion that the car is running out of steam up top as the car limits timing to stop itself from blowing up.
A td04 is a very small turbo to run on a 5E, because the FE design means its cylinder pressures and exhaust flows are way more than its displacement hints at. Toyota and Yamaha designed it this way for NA purposes.
People here run big turbochargers on their 5Es to keep EGTs low. You can get away with as big as td06 with little change in driveability. This is due to the fixed nature of the engine's powerband due to the FE design.
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goldenvtr
Member +
good read hardcore. can you give me an idea of your EGT's please. im gettin about 810max on my trackdays and when driving normally around 30/40mph i have about 400 deg.
on the motorway at 65 im at 500ish but when i go up an extra few rpm (around 10mph)in 5th gear i can be sitting at just over 700.
Im using a tdo4l, would you recomend a slighlty bigger turbo like the td05h 16g to actualy increase reliability?
on the motorway at 65 im at 500ish but when i go up an extra few rpm (around 10mph)in 5th gear i can be sitting at just over 700.
Im using a tdo4l, would you recomend a slighlty bigger turbo like the td05h 16g to actualy increase reliability?
goldenvtr
Member +
Ive got a td05 but it needs a new comp wheel. the td04 is so reponsive though its untrue. you know how a ct9 reponds on the 4e well its like that but with LOTS more go go. i need to try a td05 before i commit to it as i really love how the td04 is with the 5e and its pretty much exactly what i was aiming for when i started building the new setup.
However i did first say when i fitted the 5e thats the td04 seems to lack uptop where it didnt do on the 4e but i put that down to a lower boost pressure as my EGTs seem pretty similar now on the 5e compaired to how they where on the 4e at same boost levels.
However i did first say when i fitted the 5e thats the td04 seems to lack uptop where it didnt do on the 4e but i put that down to a lower boost pressure as my EGTs seem pretty similar now on the 5e compaired to how they where on the 4e at same boost levels.