max'd out potential?

Rumel786

Rumel786

Member +
Fatman said:
Good lord man, all I'm doing is sharing some details of a car and trying to provoke some discussion a bit more interesting than which fpr you need to run 1bar on a ct9. As you say.. hard FACTS don't lie. Here's some more.

Yes, it's had headwork and raised the rev limit AFTER that graph. At the time of that 350bhp graph it was an UNOPENED MOTOR. e.g 140,000+ km stock standard untouched, standard head gasket, standard manifolds. Yes, in standard form this does give a very apparent narrow power band on the dyno sheet, however in practice it was quite usable. Unfortunately it never ran the 1/4 mile in this state, but it certainly would have done better than 14's with an experienced driver at the wheel.

It ran on the tune and spec from that graph for months, daily driven, running 1.5bar on pump fuel. I couldn't give you an exact timeline but I believe it would have been at least 6 months. Prior to that it was running a TD04L turbo and almost as much boost! All in all the car had a couple years of your mystical HIGH BOOST without so much as a single niggle with reliability up until it cracked a ring land due to fuel.

The car I posted a video of was running 1.5 bar on a stock headgasket and had been for many months, various other turbo setups in various states of tune for many months before that. It continued on reliably for another 18 months after that video before being sold.

Sponsor me the costs, I will do a heavily documented factory spec rebuild of a standard 4e-fte and then lay down 350bhp. Hell I'll even use second hand pistons if it makes you feel any better. If you've been building E series motors for 8+ years and can say with conviction that the stock headgasket won't take more than 1bar, then I must conclude you don't know what the hell you're talking about.. it's been proven time and time again, here and in plenty of other places (that all run faster times than england) that it's not only possible, it's consistently possible and reliable.
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now thats pure bull shit...... tbh mate... a standard iron cast mani even heavily ported cannot withstand 1.5 bar of daily driving........
 
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
Oh jeez, do I need to go get it out of the garage and take a photo?

Why the hell would I lie? Have you tried running 1.5 bar on a standard manifold?
 
Rumel786

Rumel786

Member +
Fatman said:
Oh jeez, do I need to go get it out of the garage and take a photo?

Why the hell would I lie? Have you tried running 1.5 bar on a standard manifold?
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no i have not but others have and their manis have gone poop...there was a thread about it a few months ago.

i also ran 1 bar on a td04 hybrid and my engine has gone after a few weeks of boosting.......

imo it would take a miracle for you to run 350 odd hp through a standard engine and mani without it damaging anything.

even at 1 bar the standard mani without porting would eat no 3 piston.
 
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
Regurgitated information.. probably based on experience or observation at some point but has been cycled round so many times who knows if it's even close to factual any more. I'll take some photos.

The key to running lots of power is in the tune, what were you using to accurately tune at those levels?

Edit: What do you mean by their manifolds went poop? Stock manifolds crap out and crack all the time, irrespective of turbo or power level.
 
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Fatman

Fatman

Member +
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spuddy

spuddy

Ulster Area Rep.
Interesting thread, I'm not ruleing anything out, sometimes people are just afraid to try incase they break something.

My stock headgasket popped at 1.4bar on the TD05 setup and that was due to the headbolts being overtorqued.

Whats the max revlimit u guys would run on stock springs?
 
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
I wouldn't go anything higher than 7.5k As I mentioned previously, it's been established by a few people that the issue with headgaskets going is not often the gasket itself but the headbolts. Apparently ARP now do an E series stud kit?
 
Rumel786

Rumel786

Member +
Fatman said:
Regurgitated information.. probably based on experience or observation at some point but has been cycled round so many times who knows if it's even close to factual any more. I'll take some photos.

The key to running lots of power is in the tune, what were you using to accurately tune at those levels?

Edit: What do you mean by their manifolds went poop? Stock manifolds crap out and crack all the time, irrespective of turbo or power level.
Click to expand...

i was using a jam ecu and fuelling was spot on.....

Stock manifolds dont crap out and crack all the time irrespective of turbo/power level.....how many times have you seen manifolds crack on stock boost levels?

I am not saying i dont believe high power can be achieved on stock engines...i am disputing the fact based on my own experience.... High figures can be achieved on these engines however reliability of the engine would be the issue.

Bullettooth had a stock engine and was putting i think arounf 260hp through his engine on a emu tuned by trader tuning developments and his engine broke....
 
billybob

billybob

Untrusted Seller
Rumel786 said:
i was using a jam ecu and fuelling was spot on.....

Stock manifolds dont crap out and crack all the time irrespective of turbo/power level.....how many times have you seen manifolds crack on stock boost levels?

I am not saying i dont believe high power can be achieved on stock engines...i am disputing the fact based on my own experience.... High figures can be achieved on these engines however reliability of the engine would be the issue.

Bullettooth had a stock engine and was putting i think arounf 260hp through his engine on a emu tuned by trader tuning developments and his engine broke....
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yes lad i remeber reading that about that engine,seems theres a few claiming to run that power and yes it can be done but a week or so later the rods just bent to bits
 
billybob

billybob

Untrusted Seller
Fatman said:
Good lord man, all I'm doing is sharing some details of a car and trying to provoke some discussion a bit more interesting than which fpr you need to run 1bar on a ct9. As you say.. hard FACTS don't lie. Here's some more.

Yes, it's had headwork and raised the rev limit AFTER that graph. At the time of that 350bhp graph it was an UNOPENED MOTOR. e.g 140,000+ km stock standard untouched, standard head gasket, standard manifolds. Yes, in standard form this does give a very apparent narrow power band on the dyno sheet, however in practice it was quite usable. Unfortunately it never ran the 1/4 mile in this state, but it certainly would have done better than 14's with an experienced driver at the wheel.

It ran on the tune and spec from that graph for months, daily driven, running 1.5bar on pump fuel. I couldn't give you an exact timeline but I believe it would have been at least 6 months. Prior to that it was running a TD04L turbo and almost as much boost! All in all the car had a couple years of your mystical HIGH BOOST without so much as a single niggle with reliability up until it cracked a ring land due to fuel.

The car I posted a video of was running 1.5 bar on a stock headgasket and had been for many months, various other turbo setups in various states of tune for many months before that. It continued on reliably for another 18 months after that video before being sold.

Sponsor me the costs, I will do a heavily documented factory spec rebuild of a standard 4e-fte and then lay down 350bhp. Hell I'll even use second hand pistons if it makes you feel any better.

If you've been building E series motors for 8+ years and can say with conviction that the stock headgasket won't take more than 1bar, then I must conclude you don't know what the hell you're talking about.. it's been proven time and time again, here and in plenty of other places (that all run faster times than england) that it's not only possible, it's consistently possible and reliable.
Click to expand...

If you've been building E series motors for 8+ years and can say with conviction that the stock headgasket won't take more than 1bar, then I must conclude you don't know what the hell you're talking about,

he does know what hes talking about alot of lads here on the site got there engines built of him ,he knows his stuff and he was saying 1.5bar that the headgasket will go not 1bar ;)
 
billybob

billybob

Untrusted Seller
fatman your friend was running a vf28 turbo on his build on a stock engine to get 350 bhp from that would have blown the head threw the bonnet of the car and the rods into the ground:)
 
Fatman

Fatman

Member +
Rumel786 said:
i was using a jam ecu and fuelling was spot on.....

Stock manifolds dont crap out and crack all the time irrespective of turbo/power level.....how many times have you seen manifolds crack on stock boost levels?
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hundreds of them mate. Here in nz we have a LOT of ep82's and these days they have almost all done 220,000+kms. It's unusual to find an intact manifold on any of these cars. Very often crack on stock levels. My very own gt currently has a badly cracked original manifold and has never run more than stock boost.

It's harder for me to post a graph proving long term reliability, but it exists.
 
Rumel786

Rumel786

Member +
pretty strange as here in the uk a have quite a few mates who had the stock manis and not onr complained about it cracking on stock boost? Even the ones that get imported seem to have very old manis that dont crack at stock boost level.....

Im not sure if its the petrol/engine oil you use there that could make this much of a difference or the humidity as even in malta there are claims of high bhp on stock engines....

If it is achievable you guys are lucky you dont have to fork out for a forged engine lol

so if you stock engine can reach 350bhp am i right in thinking a fully forged one will be good for say 800bhp?
 
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billybob

billybob

Untrusted Seller
so if your stock engine can reaxh 350bhp am i right in thinking a fully forged one will be good for say 800bhp?


sure why not anything is possiable might be running this badboy if thats the case its just something i have sitting in the shed might just have to grease her up
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:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:
 
spuddy

spuddy

Ulster Area Rep.
Lol lad! You have every other turbo in ur shed, I wouldn't put it past ya to have that bad boy :p
 
G

GTEP82

Member +
Fatman said:
As a parting shot before I hit the hay (it's 3am here) perhaps it's just a question of driver skill? Our very own finx is running 13's on a stock CT9 and there's more in it, it's not just a big turbo that can lay down a fast time.

My own car is nearing completion, I will be documenting the install and tuning process as I get ready for the start of the drag racing season next month. My initial goal for the first couple of meets is to achieve a 13 second pass, end of the season I'd like to be into the 12's. Total investment in engine/turbo/exhaust/ecu/tuning/injectors and everything else involved? Less than £1000.
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for less than 1k r they givin parts away n cereal boxs ova there:haha::haha: what a read sounds lik we shud all meet half way on a uncharted drag strip n av it out :drive:
 
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