blitz acces with safcII questions

[rage]

high idle / bouncing idle (page 2 for details) help!

Hi all!

Just became the happy owner of a blitz acces ecu and i plugged it in and took the car for a drive.

she ran ok but fueling was very rich.

i had heard that the ecu would switch fueling maps to set itself up. have driven 200km and thought it would be time to trim the fueling with my wideband.

so i set it up to run afr's around 12ish (was running 10's on just the ecu without using the safc)

so the car ran great!
suddenly the car acted totally diffrent and i checked my wideband only to see she's running 10's again! wtf?? the ecu selected another fueling map?? she was running 1600rpm idle and fueling was very rich again.

so started retrimming again only to notice half way through the ecu changed his fuel mapping again!

whats up with that? how can i set it up propperly??

 

[GP82]

What is the octane rating/ron number of the fuel you are using? The ignition maps on this ecu are for 100+ octane fuel because of the aggressive spark timing it is programmed with. If there is knock detected, the ecu will immediatly fuel to rich a/f.

It could also be something simple as a sensor not functioning correctly like coolant temp sensor, air intake temp sensor, knock sensor or even thermostat causing the ecu to fuel rich. If all is good on the car, sensors all alive, no fault codes and still fuelling rich then jus' compensate with more boost, but do it with a wideband!

 

[hardcoreep]

If you are using the stock injectors with this set up you will never achieve stability @12:1afr. The ECU will retake control at random. Mine used to do it in a week, which is why I ditched it and went with an eManage. One option is to get bigger injectors which will make the fuelling even richer, so you'll have to adjust it down further and end up with the same problem. The Blitz will always run rich unless you have the octane fuel its programmed for naturally. Otherwise your other options are the eManage blue or just trim it just to a point (11:1 afr) with the SAFC.

For the technical reason. When you trim fuel in a Toyota, the ECU advances the timing to match what it believes is a lean mixture. If at any point it believes you're lying it will default to whatever preprogrammed settings it has inside.

 

[GP82]

For the technical reason. When you trim fuel in a Toyota, the ECU advances the timing to match what it believes is a lean mixture. If at any point it believes you're lying it will default to whatever preprogrammed settings it has inside.

The fuzzy logic programming in the Toyota ecu is jus' too damn failsafe, if it don't like it, it jus' won't have it. Very good for a car manufacturer mass producing cars for engine reliability/longevity, also very good research and development in the ecu programme, but makes it very hard for the enthusiast who wants to extract more or make small adjustments for their setup.

 

[rage]

running ocane 100 fuel (gulf challenger = ron100)

running stock injectors with walbro pump and rrfpr @ 3 bar. can run her very rich even in high rpm with this setup so i won;t need bigger injectors.
running a stock ct9 on 1 bar boost and setting it up with my wideband sensor.
got all the sensors working and added wideband, egt, oil pres. oil temp and coolant temp.
everything is running great in the greens exept she keeps running very rich.

i tuned it with the presious stock ecu and it ran fine and accepted the settings i used with the safc.
just can;t get the settings to stick with the blitz ecu.

the ecu will be great for someone running a simple setup and running it safe, but i want to get the max out of it with finetuned settings.
might throw it back up for sale if i can't solve this

 

[kieran.s gt]

are you running 3 bar fuel pressure with the blitz ecu ?

 

[hardcoreep]

running ocane 100 fuel (gulf challenger = ron100)

running stock injectors with walbro pump and rrfpr @ 3 bar. can run her very rich even in high rpm with this setup so i won;t need bigger injectors.
running a stock ct9 on 1 bar boost and setting it up with my wideband sensor.
got all the sensors working and added wideband, egt, oil pres. oil temp and coolant temp.
everything is running great in the greens exept she keeps running very rich.

i tuned it with the presious stock ecu and it ran fine and accepted the settings i used with the safc.
just can;t get the settings to stick with the blitz ecu.

the ecu will be great for someone running a simple setup and running it safe, but i want to get the max out of it with finetuned settings.
might throw it back up for sale if i can't solve this

That is actual overkill. I suggest you put the fuel pressure back to stock. What's probably happening is that you have so much fuel that you're turning down the fuel so much you're triggering the timing. The high idle tells me that you're running too much fuel. It worked on the stock ECU because the timing advance isn't as aggressive as the Blitz Access

You don't need all that to run 15psi on a CT9. Using just the stock injectors I've been able to run as high as 19psi. The Access runs the injectors at 80-88% which is a lot of fuel for the CT9's cfm. At 13psi and the stock injectors afr for me was 10.5 at max. However, as I said the Access and the SAFC aren't going to work together with the stock injectors.

 

[JasonGlanza]

it can work with stock injectors and the combination equipment mentioned as im running it (Access) with an apexi safc (old version) and with a ct9 hybrid at around 0.96bar and its running low/mid 11s on high boost and idles at around 14.7-15.1 afrs, important to put up the fuel pressure back to stock as these ecus works at its best with this figure of 2.3bar. before i set it up it was running very rich at low 10s.

 

[rage]

i'll turn the rrfpr back down to 2.3 bars and see how that goes. thx for the tips

but reading all this i get to the conclusion that the blitz ecu and safc II won;t work well together and i won;t be able to get the fueling spot on
so what would be better?

stock ecu, and trim fueling to get the right afr's? (12ish)

or

blitz with more agressive timing, but rich afr's?

 

[hardcoreep]

it can work with stock injectors

Ok let me be more specific. Options, increase cfm via a bigger turbocharger like JasonGlanza, or increase the boost on the CT9. Either will have the effect of leaning out the mixture because there's more air to mix with the available fuel. This is probably why JG's set up works cause he's running a Hybrid thus his trim percentages are low enough not to trigger anything or have an effect. Basically the Access has ignored his settings and what is naturally supposed to happen (re:above) has happened and he's attributing it to the SAFC. Having swapped back and forth between a CT9 and td04 with my Access, the afrs dropped by 1 point without any tuning on the larger turbocharger (CT9 was at 13psi, the td04 was at 5psi) Results came from a back to back dyno comparison.

Get the eManage. As I explain to my customers, the SAFC tries to fool the ECU into fueling while the EMB with the injector harness controls their duty cycle directly after its passed through the ECU. The EMB doesn't lie to the ECU, it lies to the injectors themselves.

I run this set up, Access and EMB. I use my SAFC for monitoring duties only. Honestly, from what I've learned, if you drive it enough it will simply adjust with no help from you, especially at 15psi. I'd take out the pump and put the frp back to stock and be happy. You should consider yourself lucky. With a Supra fuel pump and stock injectors my Access was running in the 8:1. I suspect the reason yours isn't any richer is because the timing afforded by the 100 octane is keep afrs as programmed.

 

[Chris@CCM]

Just buy a good ecu for the money the blitz and safc has cost u could have a haltech sprint 500 , if ur going to have to retune it after plugn it in I've no idea y u would want to use one at all I've allways been shocked the money ppl pay for a ecu they can't tune and most of the time as far as I can see come was a poor tune on them

 

[Chris@CCM]

The emb CANT tirm fuel via injector signals it uses the map signal to do this just like the safc I've no idea y u would want to run a set up like urs with the blitz and emb cost is crazzy and is still very limited IMO

 

[hardcoreep]

The EMB, when using the injector harness sends voltage signals directly to the injectors allowing it the ability to push them past their ECU programmed duty cycle. While it may use a MAP sensor signal to TRIM fuel, it doesn't affect the timing signal.

 

[Chris@CCM]

If it's changing the map signal the ecu is geting them ur timing will be diffrent just like using a safc only diffrence is u can ajust the timing with it if u have the rite loom ,

 

[hardcoreep]

Actually it doesn't change the timing. The EMB kills the confirmation signal the Toyota ECU needs to control timing. And the SAFC cannot change duty cycle, the EMB can.

 

[Chris@CCM]

if it changes the map signal how is the timing not changed , it has to be as the ecu is seeing a diffrent load it only uses the map sensor wiring to do this so i cant see how the timing is not changed it has to be

 

[rage]

back to my problem

lowered the fuel pressure to 2.3 bars, set the safc to 0% on all rpm's
she's running quite good and afr's are around 11 so it has improved since the last attempt.
but now the idle is messing up.

when stepping on the clutch, idle drops down to about 1k revs, the climbs to 1500, drops to 1000, rises againg (does that a few times) then keeps idle around 1600. why does it do that? everything is back to basics and the only thing controling it now is the blitz ecu.
is this a case of drive around for 100 miles till it sets itself propperly? or is there another problem i missed?

 

[hardcoreep]

Had the same problem for a week. It would shut off at low rpms. It was adjusting. Should stop. If not, try the ECU on another car, if it behaves the same way the the ECU is probably damaged. Dose it still have the security stickers on it, unopened?

Toyota ECU doesn't have a multiple tables like a honda or a Nissan. It also has a check signal it uses for timing changes. If it doesn't get that signal it either throws an error or retains the timing value placed there.

 

[rage]

seals are unopened so i'll keep it in for a week and see if it stops doing that.

so far i'm really not impressed with the ecu

 

[hardcoreep]

Well considering your set up, i wouldn't be either. My Access was my 3rd modification, so I know what it behaves like from stock to a td04. I have never run anything more than larger fuel pump. The timing has to be set back to factory, 10 degrees and it really works best when the fuel pressures are stock. I could imagine the fire hose like fuel flow when the 3BAR of pressure hit the 80% open injectors.

I love mine, wouldn't trade it for the world.