The great 5E v 4E timing debate.

AzE_B

AzE_B

Member +
gorganl2000 said:
hey aze-b...could you clarify this line here....i dont fully understand what you are trying to say

and...from my expereinces, the 4efte and 5efhe have the same head, even have the same rev limit at 7200rpm (yes, the glanza is slightly higher:))

also, from comparing the 4efte and 5efhe distributor, both look the same to me.....i dont know if they have different part numbers

the guys that made big power on turbo 5Es over here tended to favor the "4E" timing mark on the cams..........some have also run 5E marking, but i dont have a lot fo feedback on it

i think the US guys run the 5E marking also on their 5efhte builds...and made some big power also

who knows:haha:
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my car made 240whp on the 5e marks and 285whp on the 4e marks
 
Chris@CCM

Chris@CCM

Member +
u guys all know that the 4e and the 5e marks u got take the cam pully off to change it rite as in the 2 slots in the pullys for the cam drive pin and as far as i can see it makes no odds as it still puts it in the seam spot
 
goldenvtr

goldenvtr

Member +
Chris@CCM said:
u guys all know that the 4e and the 5e marks u got take the cam pully off to change it rite as in the 2 slots in the pullys for the cam drive pin and as far as i can see it makes no odds as it still puts it in the seam spot
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i originally thought that but after pyshically testing it there is a diffrence on the 5e timing marks after about 10 crank revolutions the 4e mark never onces alligned at the same time as the crank pulley where as the 5e mark obviasly did
 
ramses974

ramses974

Member +
on my 4e set up it is at 4E mark that i have the BIG power....:holdit::holdit:

4efte head+5efhe cams+td04 at 1.2bar:drive::drive:
 
weeJohn

weeJohn

Lifer
goldenvtr said:
i originally thought that but after pyshically testing it there is a diffrence on the 5e timing marks after about 10 crank revolutions the 4e mark never onces alligned at the same time as the crank pulley where as the 5e mark obviasly did
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There must have been something else causing that then mate, the crank pulley is half the diameter of the cam pulley, so no matter how many times you turn the thing, the bottom pulley turns 2 revolutions to the top pulleys one revolution.

Its basically maths, twice the diameter and twice as many teeth on the top as the bottom, does not matter about belt length or block height.
 
goldenvtr

goldenvtr

Member +
hmm maybe i explained that wrong...
(using 5e markers)
what im saying is that the crank pulley and 5e timing mark will line up fine every couple of revolutions. but at no point would the 4e marker line up to the crank marker - proving that the 4e and 5e markes are diffrent.
 
billybob

billybob

Untrusted Seller
goldenvtr said:
hmm maybe i explained that wrong...
(using 5e markers)
what im saying is that the crank pulley and 5e timing mark will line up fine every couple of revolutions. but at no point would the 4e marker line up to the crank marker - proving that the 4e and 5e markes are diffrent.
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can you put up a picture of how you timed up the crank and cams with the 5e marks?
 
rmsnoel

rmsnoel

Member +
Cam someone not just knock up an adjustable cam gear from the OEM item and solve all problems. I'd buy one (not for $120 though) lol
 
sx_turbo

sx_turbo

Lifer
goldenvtr said:
hmm maybe i explained that wrong...
(using 5e markers)
what im saying is that the crank pulley and 5e timing mark will line up fine every couple of revolutions. but at no point would the 4e marker line up to the crank marker - proving that the 4e and 5e markes are diffrent.
Click to expand...

you must have timed the 4e up wrong then,
 
G

Gtstu

Member +
think he means because he changed it to the 5e marks so the 4e wont line up. to prove there is a difference
 
M

madat50

Fresh Recruit
Dave@TM-developments.com said:
We always use the 4e marks, Rick's car made less power on the 5e marks and so did Azeb's I believe
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guys i'm a bit confused here: 1st, is it better to use the 4EFTE cams on a 5E head since it is the same as the OEM turbo head? If I use 5E cams, which have a higher lift and different duration, should I use the 4E or the 5E markings.
I am running 5E markings on the 5E block and the idling is fluctuating when the engine is warm but at full throttle the engine is straining to reach the 7K mark.
Thanks Guys.
 
R

ruggiero06

Member +
first off this thread is very informative.

so im gonna be using my 5e bottom end with my 4e ecu, harness, ignitor, head, intake mani and tb, exhaust mani with ct9 setup and other 4e bits. basically only thing im using from the 5e is the bottom end for the 200cc displacement and the 9.4:1 cr.

now i was told to set the timing to 12* btdc. im gonne try it on both the 4e and 5e timing marks and see which one seems to run better.

now is 12* btdc right?
 
weeJohn

weeJohn

Lifer
goldenvtr said:
hmm maybe i explained that wrong...
(using 5e markers)
what im saying is that the crank pulley and 5e timing mark will line up fine every couple of revolutions. but at no point would the 4e marker line up to the crank marker - proving that the 4e and 5e markes are diffrent.
Click to expand...

I get you now, sorry about that.

The difference must be slight, a half tooth or less, but that would make a big difference in terms of valve overlap alright.
 
G

gorganl2000

Lifer
billybob said:
x2 has to be 10 lad
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yeah...i think people need to remember that 10 degrees is stock timing for both the 4e and 5e

additionally, the heads are essentially the same......the cams tend to be pretty much the same (yes, there are some small variations)

interestingly though...the 4efte (turbo) and 4efe (n/a) both use the 4E timing mark....do the 4efte and 4efe share the SAME/EXACT cam profiles?..cause this would be another consideration in the valve overlap debate between turbo vs n/a timing marks in our set ups
 
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