blitz jam mines etc ecus what the big £ about

[sx_turbo]

i see the point in the plug and play ecu, they keep all the great things about the stock ecu, and 90% have a much more aggressive map.

the problem is no one knows what they were mapped for unless they were already ont the car and most were mapped on road or dyno and just a universal map fitted.

i've heard of people sending there ecu's back to mines to put a map for a different turbo on it, how do mines come up with this map? i highly doubt they just so happen to have a car exactly the same as yours sitting in the car park, it's just a universal map, loaded with different parameters and with huge safety margins so as the car dont blow up, thus not getting the most from your setup.

i have a mate who bought a mani downpipe tongs hybrid, and KSROM from japan, he emailed the seller saying what he said, and the guy from japan said yeah it be fine.

now after fitting it and driving it for 200 miles to learn, he took it to a dyno,

the boost was upped to 1bar, and the ecu showed promise, excellent low down power was made, and excellent top end power, the problem was inbetween,

the map had a massive rich spot that could clearly be seen in the the dyno graph, and on the road you could really feel it, which was really annoying, the timing seemed ok, was detting or anything apparently and was definately much more aggressive.

the only way he could sort this issue was to buy a form of piggy back and get that tuned, which kinda negated the point in the ecu.

was it really worth it £500 for the ecu, plus however much to make it perfect? i would say not.

IF the ecu's could be bought from uk dealers who were able to tune them, similar to the ecutek system or nistune system then these types of ecu's would be perfect as they can be tuned for your requirements

 

[christyep91]

Loada of good tuners over here , Ecc ai auto sport steven guilt oma etc not sure if ur mean any thing with my tuning there but at one pont I had the most hp in the uk 424 hp and 404 ft lbs so I can't be too bad

Not sayin any of those or you are bad tuners
you seem to be very good value for mappin but your around 3hours from me
the closest place to me is tdp.ie and there expensive
westward engineerin only seem to be good at some cars
it's hard to know what to do it seemed a lot easier just throw an access on it and away I go
also worth sayin my access was mapped for a ki200v

 

[Johnny_C]

Not sayin any of those or you are bad tuners
you seem to be very good value for mappin but your around 3hours from me
the closest place to me is tdp.ie and there expensive
westward engineerin only seem to be good at some cars
it's hard to know what to do it seemed a lot easier just throw an access on it and away I go
also worth sayin my access was mapped for a ki200v

dont let the 3 hours away but you off,you could make a day/weekend of it if your going for a map with chris.
well worth the drive,and sure once your at dublin,its motorway most of the way!

 

[JasonGlanza]

regards my experience with the Blitz Access ecu i can't fault it and yes i paid around £500 for it but its worth it to avoid to remap another ecu to your specs especially when your bhp figures your expecting or you want it to run are not past the maximum of 220bhp with a gd setup. Yes it was tuned for a Blitz K1 turbo setup (as stated on ecu in Japanese) which is vey similar to a Hybrid CT9 tubby which i have on my V with the related mods to support it, so the map was similar in some extent. It overfuel a bit on high boost (low 10s) but kept idle normally afrs. Then i installed an Apexi SAFC to trim fuel etc and the gains it showed were great. Now it fuels mid to low 11s at 0.96bar of boost (which i still have room for leaning it out a little bit more, to lets say high 11s so i can still be safe) and on idling it runs at around 14.7-15s afrs. Also mid range afrs compares very well with revs and load. Important to note that im running standard fuel pressure too of 2.3-2.4bar with a SARD fpr kit and a stock setup of fuel pump and injectors and an AEM wideband to monitor afrs. Im quite happy with it..........

So its a matter of opinions afterall to like or not as already stated in previous threads your will not be 100% sure what you have untill you try it out on your current setup as every car is differently set it up.

 

[Steve GT]

someone mentioned about it not being fair to label all the plug and plays the same after testing just one on this proposed dyno day

just thought id mention from what iv heared and also researched they all do pretty much the same and are all mapped the same just different manufacturers put their names to them. but as performance goes they do the same job at the same map im pretty sure lol

 

[hardcoreep]

The 1.1 in there signals the boost that it will take. For the purposes of this test we cannot test the stock computer at that boost level so both units will be tested at stockish boost.

That just means its mapped to 1.1BAR. It has no way of raising the boost. The Bliz Access is mapped to 19psi. You can run whatever boost level you like. So you can turn the boost down to the stock levels.

researched they all do pretty much the same and are all mapped the same just different manufacturers put their names to them. but as performance goes they do the same job at the same map

Then your research is flawed. While they change similar characteristics, even across different cars, each JDM tuner has their own testing data. As i've SHOWN in my ECU thread elsewhere, many of these ECUs are protected not allowing you to copy their data. I've driven several cars with different ECUs and brandwise they're different. The MINE'S is the most aggressive, while the JAM is the most street friendly. The Access is in between and you can purchase two other variations on it for your setup.

i've heard of people sending there ecu's back to mines to put a map for a different turbo on it, how do mines come up with this map? i highly doubt they just so happen to have a car exactly the same as yours sitting in the car park, it's just a universal map, loaded with different parameters and with huge safety margins so as the car dont blow up, thus not getting the most from your setup.

I have actually done this. I sent an Access back to Blitz for a car running a td05. What they sent back made 300whp and was able to be driven around with zero problems. Now did I think that was a good idea, no, but the owner didn't want the problems associated with fitting a standalone.

 

[Steve GT]

the mines is more aggressive i do agree....only slightly. ok il change what i said there not EXACTLY the same but the similarities are pretty much exact bar a few little tweeks. nothing majorly noticable

 

[J25GTi]

See, why purchase a premapped ecu when you have to trim it with a safcII sheldon?

That's like what 700quids worth of kit?

When for 700quid you could have a haltech standalone with loads more features and get more power out of it and have it mapped!

It seems insane to me

 

[Chris@CCM]

300whp from a ecu that was not mapped or set up on the car ? Even if that was true it sounds soooooo silly to do that big big risks being taking there , what map sensor was used ? If the stock sensor can only read up to 1.2 bar ish how on earth could u get 300whp from it ?

 

[Chris@CCM]

This is what I don't get if there so good y would u fit a safc or a emb emu on to it ? If u can't get the seam hp with a unit that let's u ajust the timing a fueling on a stock ecu clearly ur tuning skills are balls

 

[ktl]

I owned a JAM Ecu, 1 bar is made 187hp and when i upped her to 1.1bar is made 210hp. this is with a tongs turbo. fueling wise was into the 10s at wot.

i then decided for a td04, and that 1 bar is made 230hp and fueled between 11-12 at wot.

I then went for emanage ultimate and it still made 230hp at 1bar so no power increase there.

To me they are worth it especially if you aint got the funds for piggyback or standalone.

I guess i had a good one which served me for a good 8-9 months.

 

[Chris@CCM]

Or ur tuner for ur emu was not up to much

 

[whiteglanzav]

Blue doesn't remove speed cut or raise the rev limit.

well thats wrong

 

[sanchez]

The MINE'S is the most aggressive, while the JAM is the most street friendly. The Access is in between and you can purchase two other variations on it for your setup.

Hardcore how can you say this though? Have you tested more than one ECU from each tuner?
Surely all the Mines ECUs are not mapped the same, as for the BLITZ and JAM ECUs, they are all mapped for individual cars over in Japan are they not?
And i dont understand how you can send an ECU back to the company for them to map it, how can they map it to your car? guess work? Thats crazy imo.

Also what experiences do you have with the other plug and play ECUs out there such as TOMS, KSROMs etc?

 

[ktl]

Maybe not, but im pushing 270hp at 1.3bar which im chuffed about.

but were not talking about tuners were talking about the ecu's and the JAM ECU served me well from ct9 to td04.

Now its in Holland!

 

[sacodetoro]

I owned a JAM Ecu, 1 bar is made 187hp and when i upped her to 1.1bar is made 210hp. this is with a tongs turbo. fueling wise was into the 10s at wot.

i then decided for a td04, and that 1 bar is made 230hp and fueled between 11-12 at wot.

I then went for emanage ultimate and it still made 230hp at 1bar so no power increase there.

To me they are worth it especially if you aint got the funds for piggyback or standalone.

I guess i had a good one which served me for a good 8-9 months.

Or ur tuner for ur emu was not up to much

Chris, I would be careful what you say considering that at 1.2bar you only managed to get 237bhp on my car.....


On a cost basis, average cost of;
JAM etc = £500 fitting is free, fueling check is about £20 so the oppurtunity cost is £520
Unit has a Net Book Value of £500

For EMU, unit and harness = £500, fitting and mapping = £210
oppurtunity cost is £720
Unit has a NBV of £500

so In relative terms, an Emu is £200 more expensive than self learning, £350 more expensive if you have to change your map again.




The ONLY fair test is (if at stock boost);

JAM/MINES gets dynoed first after being fitted to the car for 100+ miles(with some hard driving) so it can populate all its tables etc

Then, the car gets fitted and mapped with An EMU and kept at stock boost.

Then the standard ecu gets fitted and the car dynoed again.


It is not fair to say that an EMU/standalone is much better if you don't inlude it in the test as nobody know what diferrence it will make either as I don't think anyone has fitted and mapped an EMU to a completely stock EP.

 

[Sheldon]

regards my experience with the Blitz Access ecu i can't fault it and yes i paid around £500 for it but its worth it to avoid to remap another ecu to your specs especially when your bhp figures your expecting or you want it to run are not past the maximum of 220bhp with a gd setup. Yes it was tuned for a Blitz K1 turbo setup (as stated on ecu in Japanese) which is vey similar to a Hybrid CT9 tubby which i have on my V with the related mods to support it, so the map was similar in some extent. It overfuel a bit on high boost (low 10s) but kept idle normally afrs. Then i installed an Apexi SAFC to trim fuel etc and the gains it showed were great. Now it fuels mid to low 11s at 0.96bar of boost (which i still have room for leaning it out a little bit more, to lets say high 11s so i can still be safe) and on idling it runs at around 14.7-15s afrs. Also mid range afrs compares very well with revs and load. Important to note that im running standard fuel pressure too of 2.3-2.4bar with a SARD fpr kit and a stock setup of fuel pump and injectors and an AEM wideband to monitor afrs. Im quite happy with it..........

So its a matter of opinions afterall to like or not as already stated in previous threads your will not be 100% sure what you have untill you try it out on your current setup as every car is differently set it up.

so you forked out 500gbp for an ecu with a better fuel map and better timing map... when it was fited to you car you noticed it runs rich.. so thats already on thing gone bad.. you had to buy an safc to trim fueling.. so more money spent... and the worst part is that when you trim fueling with an safc... your altering the ignition map!

See, why purchase a premapped ecu when you have to trim it with a safcII sheldon?

That's like what 700quids worth of kit?

When for 700quid you could have a haltech standalone with loads more features and get more power out of it and have it mapped!

It seems insane to me

dude thats not me... lol

 

[williamocarroll1982]

I owned a JAM Ecu, 1 bar is made 187hp and when i upped her to 1.1bar is made 210hp. this is with a tongs turbo. fueling wise was into the 10s at wot.

i then decided for a td04, and that 1 bar is made 230hp and fueled between 11-12 at wot.

I then went for emanage ultimate and it still made 230hp at 1bar so no power increase there.

To me they are worth it especially if you aint got the funds for piggyback or standalone.

I guess i had a good one which served me for a good 8-9 months.

Just because it made the same PEAK power doesnt mean they are the same. The mid range power and torque could have been totally different

 

[ktl]

Possibly but even mapped at 1bar still feels the same. But the JAM ECU did the job fromct9 to td04 untill i could afford a EMU + Mapping. Which total cost me around £750.

Im not saying all the ECUs was like mine, im saying that it WORKED very well for me and i was happy with it yet still people try and be negative towards them even though i got very good results with it .... and my engine is still going strong.

didnt someone pull over 200hp with a JDM ECU on a standard ct9 ?

 

[GP82]

Straight from Mines!

http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums...-Pre-tuned-ecu-self-learning&highlight=mine's

Quote

“For perfect tuning it is necessary to modify the main computer. This is true whether you want to increase or decrease a vehicles performance. Over time a vehicle evolves. There is a tendency to assume that the content of the ECU doesn’t change, but this isn't the case. Both the ECU and the car evolve together.
If a vehicle is to be used as a track car at a fixed temperature and air pressure, then it may be possible to use an interchangeable computer. Of course this isn't realistic, as a vehicle will be driven in various conditions throughout the seasons. The only solution is to take the main computer and tune it. This is what we consider to be "Perfect".”

I have run on CT9 1.2 bar, CT9 hybrid 1.3 bar, TD04 1 bar all on stock fuel system. Worked perfect with good a/f ratio, but also checked spark plugs every month and they show perfect signs of a good combustion and healthy engine.

When they run rich it is usually that there is something up with the car, sensor related or something else as the aftermarket plug & play ecu's still retain all the failsafe methods of the stock ecu.

I am gonna push it with a bigger turbo, bigger injectors(the ecu can accept a 20% increase injector size and can work out long and short term fuel trims in open loop)) 1.2 + bar boost pressure will see what happens. Jus' trying to work out how i can get a map sensor to work with the ecu for higher boost pressures. I read somewhere that the Toyota ecu's have fuel and ignition tables setup upto/beyond 1.8 bar plus boost pressures. The stock map sensor can only see 1 - 1.2 bar and if it reads any higher it continues to fuel on its last reading (rich a/f on wot closed loop)

They are deffo worth it, not saying their better then a standalone or worser, but you can manage the same if not similar results with the same setup, although i believe there must be alot of research and development gone into the plug & play ecu's infact no - one really knows how they are programmed because you cannot extract the details out of them on the tuning involved because they are protected in some way.