who runs aftermarket ecu's?

[Ted]

As above, especially when your considering the JAM/Blitz/HRF units that can only be adjusted in Japan. They are pretty much worthless and it's a high gamble when you will have no idea what they've been mapped for. Even to an identical car with identical mods there will be huge variables to consider like temperature, climate, humidity, pressure, load, friction etc etc..

Personally we use Link XLEM, good standalone and are tuners specialise in it which is fundamental to any choice..

T

are you actually sure about that toby? i've never seen anything official from jam or blitz to say they map it for specific modifications. mine has set itself up 3 times on 3 different set ups and fuelling has been spot on every time.

 

[dac69er]

i have noticed this too. people give a rough idea of the car its 'mapped' too when selling them, but i get the impression that all the units are the same and can adjust themselves within certain parameters anyway. the stock ecu is quite flexible, so why not the aftermarket units?

 

[Guye]

i have noticed this too. people give a rough idea of the car its 'mapped' too when selling them, but i get the impression that all the units are the same and can adjust themselves within certain parameters anyway. the stock ecu is quite flexible, so why not the aftermarket units?

Agreed. The funny thing is everytime you change settings like the boost level for e.g. the car actually only really feels faster after a week or so running at the new boost level. I noticed a difference when I first installed the jam ecu, but there was a BIG difference after a week or so running with it in. After I install the profecb spec2 and went to 12psi of boost, the same thing happened. BIG difference after a week or so running and the new boost level, and the extra kick after 5000rpm is simply sweet! I would love someone to explain how a worthless plug & play system can give such pleasing results. I can understand the advantages of having a precise tune done for you settings (if you have facilities available, by all means do it that way) but it is kinda harsh to knock on the plug and play unit's performance as per engine setup. So many happy users cannot be wrong. I have never heard of a plug & play unit user suffering engine trouble because of a bad tune. I brought my jam ecu from Toby because of the excellent reveiws users were giving it. For the time being I am happy with a system that takes care of my engine settings insted of performance based on how "good" my tuner is. Just my 2cents.

 

[gorganl2000]

This what need to be done, if you buy it from www.turbomotor.dk

wow...that is simple

 

[gorganl2000]

As above, especially when your considering the JAM/Blitz/HRF units that can only be adjusted in Japan. They are pretty much worthless and it's a high gamble when you will have no idea what they've been mapped for. Even to an identical car with identical mods there will be huge variables to consider like temperature, climate, humidity, pressure, load, friction etc etc..

Personally we use Link XLEM, good standalone and are tuners specialise in it which is fundamental to any choice..

T

toby my good buddy.....how's life......how the family, kids and dogs...lol
now on with the discussion.....cause it's time to analyse this TYPE of statement..

anyway....these units can't be worthless......impossible...i'm willing to put newguye's head on it........i will say with 100% certainty.......that the preprogrammed ecus (and even OEM ecu) will run in any environment wheter it be the hot caribbean, cold/wet UK/ireland, dry humid Aus, hot/dry South Africa, etc....so even with varibales such as """"temperature, climate, humidity, pressure, load, friction etc etc..""""....to consider...these units will run.....and most importantly......on various gas/octane ratings

now anyone......hear's the deal........send me 1 gallon or 2 of your gas....we'll empty the tank and put it in newguye's car (thanks for volunteering...lol)........and run it at what ever boost he's using now

then we will also send 1-2 gallons of our gas to that person.....who will do the same with their standalone and set up......u can lower your boost to 7-10 psi even.....
..let's see whose car runs better/same/worse....obviously no retuning allowed

that's just an example:rockon:

""""""""They are pretty much worthless and it's a high gamble when you will have no idea what they've been mapped for""""""""" that's a true statement....do u (when i say u,,,i mean anyone with standalone who uses the car as a daily driver) run a PERFECT/OPTIMAL/PEAK tune??..........i bet u don't..........why?.........because most of your tuners have left some leeway just in case........soem have even been conservative........hence why a few of your have some very rich AFR graphs from your dyno runs.........so i can conclude that many bought standalones and still run sub-optimal maps for daily driver....am i right or wrong??

i await your repsonses.....and i'm ready to defend my statements.... as well as being open to new information/learning from you all:rockon::rockon:

let's make this topic......interesting huh.........keep it jiggy

PS---i'm only using toby's response as an example....cause they are many out there who share this view......this is NOT a personal dig at toby..........he has done tooo much for me and i respect him FULLY......dont mean i agree with everything he says and vice versa

the perfromance u get is subject to your tuner when u run a standalone set up AND the software/hardware capabilities of the standalone ...........if u buy crappy standalones (and i mean cheap quality, restricted maps, limited parameters, etc)...........dont be surprised when the compromises have to be made by the tuners and u dont get the results u wanted/expected

i FULLY support standalones.........but if u want one........do it right or do it twice....it pays to buy a quality unit.............that's why some people that use emenage get the same or better results than some that run Poor quality standalones

 

[Franza1]

toby my good buddy.....how's life......how the family, kids and dogs...lol
now on with the discussion.....cause it's time to analyse this TYPE of statement..

anyway....these units can't be worthless......impossible...i'm willing to put newguye's head on it........i will say with 100% certainty.......that the preprogrammed ecus (and even OEM ecu) will run in any environment wheter it be the hot caribbean, cold/wet UK/ireland, dry humid Aus, hot/dry South Africa, etc....so even with varibales such as """"temperature, climate, humidity, pressure, load, friction etc etc..""""....to consider...these units will run.....and most importantly......on various gas/octane ratings

now anyone......hear's the deal........send me 1 gallon or 2 of your gas....we'll empty the tank and put it in newguye's car (thanks for volunteering...lol)........and run it at what ever boost he's using now

then we will also send 1-2 gallons of our gas to that person.....who will do the same with their standalone and set up......u can lower your boost to 7-10 psi even.....
..let's see whose car runs better/same/worse....obviously no retuning allowed

that's just an example:rockon:

""""""""They are pretty much worthless and it's a high gamble when you will have no idea what they've been mapped for""""""""" that's a true statement....do u (when i say u,,,i mean anyone with standalone who uses the car as a daily driver) run a PERFECT/OPTIMAL/PEAK tune??..........i bet u don't..........why?.........because most of your tuners have left some leeway just in case........soem have even been conservative........hence why a few of your have some very rich AFR graphs from your dyno runs.........so i can conclude that many bought standalones and still run sub-optimal maps for daily driver....am i right or wrong??

i await your repsonses.....and i'm ready to defend my statements.... as well as being open to new information/learning from you all:rockon::rockon:

let's make this topic......interesting huh.........keep it jiggy

PS---i'm only using toby's response as an example....cause they are many out there who share this view......this is NOT a personal dig at toby..........he has done tooo much for me and i respect him FULLY......dont mean i agree with everything he says and vice versa

Very valid statment about non optimal maps, alot of people run on the rich side because of varations in petrol quality and atmospheric changes,

Question: Would a matched ( by matched i mean to your setup ) Jam or simular ECU be better for a daily drive because of the " self trimming " it can perform?

 

[gorganl2000]

i await the fire...lol.........all in the name of learning..........hopefully

 

[gorganl2000]

Very valid statment about non optimal maps, alot of people run on the rich side because of varations in petrol quality and atmospheric changes,

Question: Would a matched ( by matched i mean to your setup ) Jam or simular ECU be better for a daily drive because of the " self trimming " it can perform?

i think so franza..........whether it be termed self trimming, self learning, adjusting, etc........i think any unit that can "somehow adjust" is better for daily driving.........once properly matched----it would be very hard to beat it in terms of gas comsumption, drivability, performance........within reason of course

 

[Franza1]

Another question: Wouldn't you be better off to get the car mapped on sub standard pertrol and in bad conditions ( if you don't want the figures to boast about ) ? so it would be safer to run in normal or better conditions

 

[gorganl2000]

franza1......that would make sense...as i stated above....

now....my point is BOTH preprogrammed ecus and stadalone ecus run sub-optimal maps to some degree???>.....for safety reasons.............do u agree???

PS- franza u trying to get smart with me.....lol........and dont let us forget the guys that like to BOAST .....many always look in the rolling road section and question WHY this set up aint produce THIS amount of Bhp...........when the driver usually replies that the car is performing much better and not realyl worried about big bhp figure....

common sense......says any set up...has in compromises...........how willing is anyone to take thier equipment either to the limit or close to it....lol

 

[Franza1]

No mate just my ethos is towards torque and traction rather than speed and power, IMO Bhp is all Bar talk, I would much rather an responsive and nimble car then 300,000,000 BHP and the car cant take off, just being curious that's all i like asking questions, especially to people like you with your knowledge and experience, I'm a very inquisitive person.

 

[gorganl2000]

ok...i respect that.........i have learned a lot form actually watching....being involved and reading......i dont know it all..........and ecu programming is NOT my speciality...BUT i know enough that people cant tell me crap.........if u get what i mean

ANY ecu is as good as its mappers, software/hardware and logictics processes......

u have the right idea for a daily ride..........keep i drivable.......a track car is a whole other story

the problem is people try to compromise between thier daily ride and a track car......unless u can tune and do mechanical work yourself.............its even more work ........it generally can't be done properly

let the bar talkers keep talking....that's why toyota/ross/etc sell parts....so they can replace components when they fail---for one reason or the other....lol

 

[gorganl2000]

have a meeting now.........will be back in an hr to hear what other stuff persons have to say.............i wonder if i'll be surprised..............lol

 

[Gee]

Dont think anyone is saying they are useless. Seems pretty obvious that they make a good difference.

Think the point people are trying to make is that to get the best from your engine, a standalone ECU is better than a Blitz/SARD etc ECU as they can be adjusted/mapped.

How many tuners on the strip or TOTB do you see running premapped MINES/SARD ECU's?

Who can honestly say thay would choose a Blitz/SARD/Mines ECU over a full standalone ECU if there were NO constraints, such as money, time...good tuner to map etc?

 

[sx_turbo]

i agree with you gorgan whole heartedly.

although i think if you tune a car on crap fuel with rubbish intake temperatures using an aftermarket ecu/piggyback where it cant adjust itself whilst driving, when you then put decent fuel and have nice cold intake temperatures without remapping, surely that will screw up the map and cause potential engine failure also.


so my beleif is that with all tuning on a road car there always has to be a comprimise between power and reliability.

the jam/mines/blitz etc etc ecu's i suppose must get rid of this situation as it can change itself all the time.

so at the end of the day it is personal preferance as to what is used by each individual upgrading the power of there vehicle.

 

[GP82]

The Jam, Mines, Blitz etc aftermarket ecu's have several different ignition/fuel maps built in them. For the car to upload the best most aggressive map you have to be using good fuel. These ecu's take feedback from the car and select the best suited map for your engine. So in essence the aftermarket ecu's are programmed for different scenarios on the same engine/car. I run Mines, my stock ct9 is forcing 17psi into the engine with HKS actuator and boy does it fly for what the car is at the moment. I think Rory is also using Mines on the WEPR hybrid and it seem's to be fuellin' good, if not a tad on the rich side.

 

[Toyota T23]

If that were true then your STOCK ECU would be useless as well, wouldn't it. My friend made 300+ using a MINES and a SAFC. My Honda friend put in a Mugen N1 ECU and on the first run made 14whp, after a week he retested and made 32whp. I can feel the difference between 90-octane and 100-octane on my Blitz Access. I'm fine with them and recommend them to anyone. If you want more then buy a programmable system and spend the week wiring it up and fighting with it on a dyno.

Spend a week wireing it up ? lol you get it like plug and play, and only need to fine tune it, because it is premapped.
About 30min on dyno or road(we tune on road)

 

[gorganl2000]

Dont think anyone is saying they are useless. Seems pretty obvious that they make a good difference.

Think the point people are trying to make is that to get the best from your engine, a standalone ECU is better than a Blitz/SARD etc ECU as they can be adjusted/mapped.

How many tuners on the strip or TOTB do you see running premapped MINES/SARD ECU's?

Who can honestly say thay would choose a Blitz/SARD/Mines ECU over a full standalone ECU if there were NO constraints, such as money, time...good tuner to map etc?

ah..finally back from my meeting....
i'm glad u acknowledge that they make a good difference...and i know u run PFC and prefer standalone...so it's good to hear u say that about something "lesser"

dont know if hardcoreep can verifiy......BUT as far as i know one of the fastest EP82 runs a MINES and SAFC (or at least used to)...11 sec car

that's my point......gee """ Think the point people are trying to make is that to get the best from your engine, a standalone ECU is better than a Blitz/SARD etc ECU as they can be adjusted/mapped.""""....its not ALWAYS the better way to get the best from your engine........the "best" from your engine DEPENDS on what you (the owner) requires---your personal wants........based on specified application-----street racing, drag strip, track, economy ride, grocery shopper, etc....

optimizing your standalone performance is DIRECTLY linked to having a proper tuner AND a proper standalone.....one without the other will lead to sub-optimal performance.........and even when u have both together, many tuners will still tune sub-optimal for safety purposes (yours and theirs)---after all, he/she runs a garage and has a reputation to maintain and you want your car a little/lot from its limits

so all this talk of the BEST tune this and MOST from your car........is really advertising..........most of us on here have never gotten the most from our cars----many of us just wont risk it after spending so much $$$..........let's all be honest with ourselves.......many of us operate within safe tolerances (which may usually be 5%-25% less/away from optimal/best performance)


and honestly""""""Who can honestly say thay would choose a Blitz/SARD/Mines ECU over a full standalone ECU if there were NO constraints, such as money, time...good tuner to map etc""""......if i could i would prefer to have the JAM/MINES, BLITZ/OEM ecu programmed for my car mods........i like the little flexibility they give
around certain parameters.........because i use it every day...........and i cant guarantee that if i buy shell gas today with 95 octane (which my car may be tuned for)..........that tomorrow when i buy Esso, it may be 90 oct (my car may blow up)

yes i know some aftermarket ecus can be adjusted with th slight tune of a know/button.........but my ecu does that for me

and let us still not forget.....even JAM, blitz, mines, etc....all have tuners who woul have developed maps etc,,,,,,so even the OEM unit is a standalone........may not be the best,,,,but is one none the less

your choice of ecu depends on what u want---price, performance, features, etc

 

[Toby@ToyTuning.com]

Wow now that was a response!

As Gee mentioned I think something was misinterpreted, don't get me wrong you can get a good suitable tune on some of the pre-programmed units but I was really considering highly tuned engines where the parameters are far beyond what any pre-programmed unit can manage suitably. These pre-programed units may be able to adjust to a small degree like any conventional ECU but they can't perform miracles when considering such variation, in our case any how.

We have had quite a few different maps in the past for different circumstances and yes unless you map your own car and have bespoke knowledge in data acquisition then there won't be an "optimum tune".

Interesting topic though remnant of old :homer:

T

 

[Toyota T23]

Yep toby, you are right..
We made the same 4agte engine many times, we ALWAYS have to fine tune the map for each engine, they are NEVER the same.